Anybody got a good horse for sale?
Public Flogging of Oil Speculators might help!
- Thread starter ZZman
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That is good.
Quote:
You won't let us explore for more oil here, but you're ripping OPEC for not producing more oil over there? Who's the bigger hypocrite? Or the more sanctimonious [censored]?
Quote:
You won't let us explore for more oil here, but you're ripping OPEC for not producing more oil over there? Who's the bigger hypocrite? Or the more sanctimonious [censored]?
Originally Posted By: ZZman
We are owed reasonable prices. We had choices with info we had on hand. Who would have thought this would happen this fast?
We know how many people are, or are going to be in our families. 1 in 83 births are multiples and about the only legit suprise. We know where we want to live, and, if we work for someone else, we believe our commute to that office will remain so-many miles, for as long as both parties are interested. This should influence vehicle choice.
There is a factor, X, a fuel price, that multiplies one's cost per mile, that is completely outside of one's control. One should buy Y, the smallest, most efficient vehicle they absolutely, positively need. Anything more is luxury and vanity. Both seem to turn around and bite one in the rearsides again and again.
Given a choice between having something left over because they were thrifty, or walking to work or starving or living on the street, one should err on the side of caution. But that is apparantly not how the human condition seems to work.
We are owed reasonable prices. We had choices with info we had on hand. Who would have thought this would happen this fast?
We know how many people are, or are going to be in our families. 1 in 83 births are multiples and about the only legit suprise. We know where we want to live, and, if we work for someone else, we believe our commute to that office will remain so-many miles, for as long as both parties are interested. This should influence vehicle choice.
There is a factor, X, a fuel price, that multiplies one's cost per mile, that is completely outside of one's control. One should buy Y, the smallest, most efficient vehicle they absolutely, positively need. Anything more is luxury and vanity. Both seem to turn around and bite one in the rearsides again and again.
Given a choice between having something left over because they were thrifty, or walking to work or starving or living on the street, one should err on the side of caution. But that is apparantly not how the human condition seems to work.
What do you expect people to do when you devalue their saving? and when the economy is in recession? and when inflation is over the top?
Buy something that is not controlled by a single government. That means precious metal or commodity. You can flog the speculators all you want, but as long as we are trying to rip them off, they are going to try to protect their assets, all human nature.
I think flogging our government officers who are responsible for excessive spending, not maintaining inflation, devaluing the dollar, bailing out the riches but make the poor (and honest renters who are saving for a down payment that is never enough), and veto higher fuel economy standards, would be a more effective method.
Buy something that is not controlled by a single government. That means precious metal or commodity. You can flog the speculators all you want, but as long as we are trying to rip them off, they are going to try to protect their assets, all human nature.
I think flogging our government officers who are responsible for excessive spending, not maintaining inflation, devaluing the dollar, bailing out the riches but make the poor (and honest renters who are saving for a down payment that is never enough), and veto higher fuel economy standards, would be a more effective method.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
where is it written that we are owed low prices on oil and food or anything else?
Interesting point of view. We are not owed anything. However, energy has a finite cost. Therefore, you could "make your own" energy for less than the current rate.
Don't believe me? What about firewood. It contains BTU's. In fact the BTU/Dollar ratio is quite favorable right now. You could harvest trees, split the wood and do it yourself (paying yourself a good wage) and come out ahead. Even if you own the land and pay the note on the land.
But the real reason energy costs are finite: Solar energy. PV panels have a set cost (around $4 per watt). Your payback time per BTU equiv is getting better by the day. For instance, make hydrogen (a portable energy source) and sell it. Your business model will provide energy for less than today's prices. (after a period of time).
where is it written that we are owed low prices on oil and food or anything else?
Interesting point of view. We are not owed anything. However, energy has a finite cost. Therefore, you could "make your own" energy for less than the current rate.
Don't believe me? What about firewood. It contains BTU's. In fact the BTU/Dollar ratio is quite favorable right now. You could harvest trees, split the wood and do it yourself (paying yourself a good wage) and come out ahead. Even if you own the land and pay the note on the land.
But the real reason energy costs are finite: Solar energy. PV panels have a set cost (around $4 per watt). Your payback time per BTU equiv is getting better by the day. For instance, make hydrogen (a portable energy source) and sell it. Your business model will provide energy for less than today's prices. (after a period of time).
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
What do you expect people to do when you devalue their saving? and when the economy is in recession? and when inflation is over the top?
The real recession is yet to come, and it will be deeper than it would have been had the money supply been kept in check. But it will happen when the next government comes into power, and they will get the blame.
What do you expect people to do when you devalue their saving? and when the economy is in recession? and when inflation is over the top?
The real recession is yet to come, and it will be deeper than it would have been had the money supply been kept in check. But it will happen when the next government comes into power, and they will get the blame.
Oilyriser I hate to say it, but I agree with you. I'm already seeing a lot of speculators come back into housing thinking that the bottom is here...I can't wait to see these guys get burned!! Bicameralism makes for such a wonderful quagmire here in the US. They might as well change the presidential election criteria to born in the USA and be either a democrat or a republican to keep the status quo blame game in check!
Energy prices will come into check again and folks will still purchase guzzling vehicles due to slick marketing making them feel like they need to own the product to belong.
Energy prices will come into check again and folks will still purchase guzzling vehicles due to slick marketing making them feel like they need to own the product to belong.
I don't think there is any way out of this soon to be recession regardless of what the government do. We already have high debt, lowered dollar, high energy and food price, and it seems like everyone else around the world (especially Japan and China) are not willing to raise their own currency value to make our workforce/export cheaper. Euro, Canadian, and all those relative rising currencies will also get into trouble because their labor/export cannot be cheap enough and may soon have to follow the devaluation process.
The net result -> high inflation. I'd hate to see it happen as it will only benefit oil and natural resource rich nations like Saudi.
I'm sitting on some cash in my 401k but are too afraid to buy anything as they all are in the peaks (stocks, index funds, bonds, etc). I'm spending as much as I can to reduce future expenses (pay off all the debt I can except mortgage, going to school as early as I could, traveling to all the places I wanted to see before I die, learning a skill or two in case my job got outsourced, etc). So far I am looking to Buffet to see what is the right move, but it seems like he is stuck in the same situation.
The net result -> high inflation. I'd hate to see it happen as it will only benefit oil and natural resource rich nations like Saudi.
I'm sitting on some cash in my 401k but are too afraid to buy anything as they all are in the peaks (stocks, index funds, bonds, etc). I'm spending as much as I can to reduce future expenses (pay off all the debt I can except mortgage, going to school as early as I could, traveling to all the places I wanted to see before I die, learning a skill or two in case my job got outsourced, etc). So far I am looking to Buffet to see what is the right move, but it seems like he is stuck in the same situation.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Steve S
where is it written that we are owed low prices on oil and food or anything else?
Interesting point of view. We are not owed anything. However, energy has a finite cost. Therefore, you could "make your own" energy for less than the current rate.
Don't believe me? What about firewood. It contains BTU's. In fact the BTU/Dollar ratio is quite favorable right now. You could harvest trees, split the wood and do it yourself (paying yourself a good wage) and come out ahead. Even if you own the land and pay the note on the land.
But the real reason energy costs are finite: Solar energy. PV panels have a set cost (around $4 per watt). Your payback time per BTU equiv is getting better by the day. For instance, make hydrogen (a portable energy source) and sell it. Your business model will provide energy for less than today's prices. (after a period of time).
I heat my house 100% by wood.It is a pita ,though is low in price so far,P Vs, I have been watching for the last 15 years but still too pricey but there have been rumors of the price per watt dropping like a rock but I am waiting.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
where is it written that we are owed low prices on oil and food or anything else?
Interesting point of view. We are not owed anything. However, energy has a finite cost. Therefore, you could "make your own" energy for less than the current rate.
Don't believe me? What about firewood. It contains BTU's. In fact the BTU/Dollar ratio is quite favorable right now. You could harvest trees, split the wood and do it yourself (paying yourself a good wage) and come out ahead. Even if you own the land and pay the note on the land.
But the real reason energy costs are finite: Solar energy. PV panels have a set cost (around $4 per watt). Your payback time per BTU equiv is getting better by the day. For instance, make hydrogen (a portable energy source) and sell it. Your business model will provide energy for less than today's prices. (after a period of time).
I heat my house 100% by wood.It is a pita ,though is low in price so far,P Vs, I have been watching for the last 15 years but still too pricey but there have been rumors of the price per watt dropping like a rock but I am waiting.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
But the real reason energy costs are finite: Solar energy. PV panels have a set cost (around $4 per watt). Your payback time per BTU equiv is getting better by the day. For instance, make hydrogen (a portable energy source) and sell it. Your business model will provide energy for less than today's prices. (after a period of time).
I heat my house 100% by wood.It is a pita ,though is low in price so far,P Vs, I have been watching for the last 15 years but still too pricey but there have been rumors of the price per watt dropping like a rock but I am waiting.[/quote]
The investment in PV is at full throttle right now, but the cost is not dropping like other semiconductor products because:
1) most cheap PV wafers are made from scrap wafers that silicon chips rejects (mishaps, etc). Now the number of units that PV produces exceed the scraps, so they have to start using the expensive virgin wafers.
2) The amount of silicon chips that a wafer can produces shrink 50% every 18 months according to Moore's Law (or around that number). But PV is fixed sized per Watt, so you can't take advantage of that law and spend money to expect higher output, lower cost.
But the real reason energy costs are finite: Solar energy. PV panels have a set cost (around $4 per watt). Your payback time per BTU equiv is getting better by the day. For instance, make hydrogen (a portable energy source) and sell it. Your business model will provide energy for less than today's prices. (after a period of time).
I heat my house 100% by wood.It is a pita ,though is low in price so far,P Vs, I have been watching for the last 15 years but still too pricey but there have been rumors of the price per watt dropping like a rock but I am waiting.[/quote]
The investment in PV is at full throttle right now, but the cost is not dropping like other semiconductor products because:
1) most cheap PV wafers are made from scrap wafers that silicon chips rejects (mishaps, etc). Now the number of units that PV produces exceed the scraps, so they have to start using the expensive virgin wafers.
2) The amount of silicon chips that a wafer can produces shrink 50% every 18 months according to Moore's Law (or around that number). But PV is fixed sized per Watt, so you can't take advantage of that law and spend money to expect higher output, lower cost.
Making homes super insulated can remove the need for a heating system. The few hundred watts from appliances and people is enough.
PV is currently like ethanol - expensive, subsidized, and takes more energy to make than you get out of it.
PV is currently like ethanol - expensive, subsidized, and takes more energy to make than you get out of it.
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Don't get angry. They're taking the risk ...and they deserve every dime if it works out for them ....or so I'm told.
Here is a switch - Saudi Arabia saying there is no reason for the rise in prices! http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/06/09/saudi_calls_for_talks_oil_experts_see_no_change/
Go get em boys and girls!: http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080623/062308_energy_speculation.html?.v=4
How about pumping all the oil from Iraq till the war bill is paid off.
According to the government we gave the people of Iraq a democracy ,are we doing it for free?
According to the government we gave the people of Iraq a democracy ,are we doing it for free?
I can tell you that come winter, the wailing and nashing of teeth is going to be about heating bills. Not just home heating oil, but the high cost of natural gas. Everywhere in the media they talk about oil because the consumer sees the price of gasoline everyday. Wait till winter. I am in Florida. We rely on natural gas for electricity generation. FPL (the electric company) requested a 16% increase and got approval for 8%. This just defers the increases they were requested.
The high price of natural gas is going to hurt industry, which means more job losses.
I remember seeing a community of people near Taos, NM a few years back who had built their houses underground using old tires and other thrown away stuff. Being underground keeps you cooler in summer and warmer in winter. These people were ahead of their time and now look really smart.
The high price of natural gas is going to hurt industry, which means more job losses.
I remember seeing a community of people near Taos, NM a few years back who had built their houses underground using old tires and other thrown away stuff. Being underground keeps you cooler in summer and warmer in winter. These people were ahead of their time and now look really smart.
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Originally Posted By: Steve S
How about pumping all the oil from Iraq till the war bill is paid off.
According to the government we gave the people of Iraq a democracy ,are we doing it for free?
First you need to define "we" before I could comment
(old PR statement, "First I think we need to define "completely destroyed" before I could comment")
How about pumping all the oil from Iraq till the war bill is paid off.
According to the government we gave the people of Iraq a democracy ,are we doing it for free?
First you need to define "we" before I could comment
(old PR statement, "First I think we need to define "completely destroyed" before I could comment")
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