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Originally Posted By: Olas
Doing it by software implies uploading a new file through the obd port. The laptop used would be filling in all the load cells to optimise for the hardware. How else you'd you program an ECU?
That's still using software. Depending on the tuning device and how tunes are applied you can save multiple tunes, tunes made using real time software on the laptop, and then switch between them without the laptop after the fact. I think you are trying to draw separation between "boxed" tunes sold on tuning devices and those done on the vehicle itself?
Originally Posted By: Olas
I have documentation (as do many others) that fitting non-factory parts voids warranty claims relating to the system that said parts were fitted to.
You didn't realise that there was no direct comparison, only that whatever comes from the factory can be improved upon.
I'd like to see the documentation. The reason I say that is that there's a big difference between replacing a factory Turbo for example on a vehicle with a higher output aftermarket model and that would rightfully void the warranty on the engine if it was able to be proven to be the cause of failure. On the other hand, there's no requirement to use factory brake rotors and/or pads and the most they could be tied to would be caliper failure which, if the aftermarket parts were significantly different from stock, MIGHT be a warranty contention issue.
Originally Posted By: Olas
(sorry, not sure how to break down quotes in the manner shown above)
No problem, you'll see the tags when you quote a post. You can shuffle the tags around and copy them to quote/unquote specific blocks of text.
Originally Posted By: Olas
So after transatlantic semantics, is it fair to say that you prefer what the OEM does as compared to what the aftermarket does?
It depends on the car. For a high performance variant that is kept mechanically stock I see no compelling reason to deviate from the factory tune for example, particularly when under warranty. On the other hand a vehicle that is not being kept mechanically stock and is going to be producing more power than stock, then a tune or tuning device may become a necessity. I have a buddy that used to tune for Steeda that had an '04 Cobra, significantly modified, with twin turbo's. Obviously that car was not under warranty any longer and required significant tuning due to the massive change in induction and power output (roughly 850RWHP on 94 octane IIRC).
On the other hand I see folks pulling off their factory induction systems and installing chromed tubes and rock catcher filters that are getting hot engine bay air thinking they are improving over what the OEM provided. This is a case where the OEM parts selection was superior but somebody thought an aftermarket part was "better".
For high performance models this is even more ridiculous as usually their induction systems are even more overkill (not always, but often). The twin filter intake setup on my M5 was the furthest thing from restrictive.
Originally Posted By: Olas
I feel like the factory car is a part finished job, and in "finishing" the job my car has shorter stopping distance, approx. 30% more power and higher cornering speeds - wether with factory parts or aftermarket parts you can always get more out of any car. Look at long tube headers and Hotchkiss suspension for example...
More at the expense of what though? Remember, the factory setup is designed to appeal to a broad audience so particularly with a car that isn't geared toward being driven on a race track, the handling is going to be a compromise that leans toward ride quality. When you start looking at higher performance cars, this becomes far less of an issue. BMW's M-cars, Mercedes AMG....etc. You don't get anywhere NEAR the improvement on these by buggering with the suspension as you do on a more mainstream vehicle.
So it isn't a matter of being a part finished job but rather a setup that's designed to appeal to a wide range of people and provide a satisfactory balance of characteristics that pleases them. In that vein, that's why they don't come with carbon/ceramic brakes either. It isn't that the factory simply left them out in hopes that an end user would do it but rather for the market the car is geared at, they aren't necessary nor would they probably be desirable. This same process is why the SRT cars come with much larger Brembo brakes whilst the regular LX cars come with "normal" brakes that will be much less expensive come pad/rotor time and provide adequate stopping for the anticipated operating conditions presented by your average driver.
Doing it by software implies uploading a new file through the obd port. The laptop used would be filling in all the load cells to optimise for the hardware. How else you'd you program an ECU?
That's still using software. Depending on the tuning device and how tunes are applied you can save multiple tunes, tunes made using real time software on the laptop, and then switch between them without the laptop after the fact. I think you are trying to draw separation between "boxed" tunes sold on tuning devices and those done on the vehicle itself?
Originally Posted By: Olas
I have documentation (as do many others) that fitting non-factory parts voids warranty claims relating to the system that said parts were fitted to.
You didn't realise that there was no direct comparison, only that whatever comes from the factory can be improved upon.
I'd like to see the documentation. The reason I say that is that there's a big difference between replacing a factory Turbo for example on a vehicle with a higher output aftermarket model and that would rightfully void the warranty on the engine if it was able to be proven to be the cause of failure. On the other hand, there's no requirement to use factory brake rotors and/or pads and the most they could be tied to would be caliper failure which, if the aftermarket parts were significantly different from stock, MIGHT be a warranty contention issue.
Originally Posted By: Olas
(sorry, not sure how to break down quotes in the manner shown above)
No problem, you'll see the tags when you quote a post. You can shuffle the tags around and copy them to quote/unquote specific blocks of text.
Originally Posted By: Olas
So after transatlantic semantics, is it fair to say that you prefer what the OEM does as compared to what the aftermarket does?
It depends on the car. For a high performance variant that is kept mechanically stock I see no compelling reason to deviate from the factory tune for example, particularly when under warranty. On the other hand a vehicle that is not being kept mechanically stock and is going to be producing more power than stock, then a tune or tuning device may become a necessity. I have a buddy that used to tune for Steeda that had an '04 Cobra, significantly modified, with twin turbo's. Obviously that car was not under warranty any longer and required significant tuning due to the massive change in induction and power output (roughly 850RWHP on 94 octane IIRC).
On the other hand I see folks pulling off their factory induction systems and installing chromed tubes and rock catcher filters that are getting hot engine bay air thinking they are improving over what the OEM provided. This is a case where the OEM parts selection was superior but somebody thought an aftermarket part was "better".
For high performance models this is even more ridiculous as usually their induction systems are even more overkill (not always, but often). The twin filter intake setup on my M5 was the furthest thing from restrictive.
Originally Posted By: Olas
I feel like the factory car is a part finished job, and in "finishing" the job my car has shorter stopping distance, approx. 30% more power and higher cornering speeds - wether with factory parts or aftermarket parts you can always get more out of any car. Look at long tube headers and Hotchkiss suspension for example...
More at the expense of what though? Remember, the factory setup is designed to appeal to a broad audience so particularly with a car that isn't geared toward being driven on a race track, the handling is going to be a compromise that leans toward ride quality. When you start looking at higher performance cars, this becomes far less of an issue. BMW's M-cars, Mercedes AMG....etc. You don't get anywhere NEAR the improvement on these by buggering with the suspension as you do on a more mainstream vehicle.
So it isn't a matter of being a part finished job but rather a setup that's designed to appeal to a wide range of people and provide a satisfactory balance of characteristics that pleases them. In that vein, that's why they don't come with carbon/ceramic brakes either. It isn't that the factory simply left them out in hopes that an end user would do it but rather for the market the car is geared at, they aren't necessary nor would they probably be desirable. This same process is why the SRT cars come with much larger Brembo brakes whilst the regular LX cars come with "normal" brakes that will be much less expensive come pad/rotor time and provide adequate stopping for the anticipated operating conditions presented by your average driver.
