Porsche Engineering:Going Downhill?

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
SubLGT - The rate of M96 engine failures has been blown out of all reality and magnitude. Many hundreds of thousands on these engines exist. The M96 flat water cooled engine family is now 12 years old (not 40 years) and it is the most produced engine from Porsche

There are basically three M96 failure types (general description only);

"Liner" failure - random and in very early engines - essentially prior to MY1999. Lower part (very small) of liner breaks off

IMS failure - random and in a VERY VERY small percentage of engines. Usually higher power or modified versions

RMS leaks - reasonably common (say 8-10% of engines), a minor leak cured by updates to seals etc. Not common since MY2001

The rate of "failures" in the M96 engines were less frequent than with the older aircooled "flat" engines

The M96 engine has proven to be VERY reliable in real terms and is showing all the traits of high durability over considerable mileages

I have owned around 22 German cars over 40 or so years - and about 80 cars in all over 54 years! The Germans were/are Benz 7, VW 7, BMW 3, Porsche 3 and Audi 2. Company cars amount to another 6 Benzes and 4 VWs

Many are over engineered and complex - true - but driving a Porsche at >250kmh is an experience to be savoured. To drive a Boxster "quick" on a winding "exciting" road is truely one of life's pleasures - especially when being "muscled" by the hot Fords and Holdens that believe they own the roads here in OZ

They seem to give up the ghost quickly really!

None of my German cars have ever proven to be unreliable!

I really think that Porsche's Engineering is at an extremely high level at this point - probably at its best ever. Volume production does however lead to some compromises in certain areas

I won't be changing Brands any time soon!

 

[ffracer]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I will agree that Japanese electronics are better in general, but if you guys insist that German cars have such poor reliability then I must be living in a parallel universe.


Must be, because my 97 M3 4-door manual is a pile of [censored]. Broken (not rusted out) radiator (?), many suspension parts made out of the wrong bushing material, an engine that starves the valve train when cornered hard (what does 'M' stand for?), phantom door locks that drain the battery, rear brake light sockets that corrode in air, cheap body hardware/seals, seats that wear when you sit in them, cheap interior plastics and fit, etc. This is before I even get into electricals.

It is the most fun 4-door car I have ever driven. A Honda S2000 is more fun, but that's sports car. That also works. The M3 also gets good gas mileage with a manual.

There are ways to make it fun and reliable. BMW doesn't seem to be worried about the latter, as most of these problems are on both the E36 bodies and E46 (1992-2005).

Even without the M suspension and rear drive, wish I bought an Acura TSX. 95% as fun, 0% of the [censored]. Plus, a way better shifter.

My Ford Ranger is far better in reliability than this thing. But it sure is fuuuuun to drive and nice to look at.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: ffracer
Must be, because my 97 M3 4-door manual is a pile of [censored].


Your car was made on the "For Export Only" assembly line in the Dingolfing plant.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: ffracer
Must be, because my 97 M3 4-door manual is a pile of [censored].


Your car was made on the "For Export Only" assembly line in the Dingolfing plant.

Send it to the Americans ... they will feel right at home with our rejects

(give it to Mikey ..he eats anything)

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ffracer
rear brake light sockets that corrode in air


silicone dielectric grease

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: ffracer
Must be, because my 97 M3 4-door manual is a pile of [censored].


Your car was made on the "For Export Only" assembly line in the Dingolfing plant.

Send it to the Americans ... they will feel right at home with our rejects

(give it to Mikey ..he eats anything)


Make the facts match the expectations!

 

[SubLGT]

Hello Doug. Thanks for your informative (and on topic

) comments. Is the M96 engine still being used in 2009 Porsches?

I saw some interesting photos and discussion of M96 failures here:

http://www.flat6innovations.com/reliability.htm

And apparently the Dec 2008 issue of Excellence also discusses this topic.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
SubLGT - The new DI engines from Porsche are a totally new variant - little from the M96 engine family is left over

The Boxster for MY2010 may in fact have a 4cyl supercharged engine - time will tell!!

 

[Benzadmiral]

I have to agree about the reliability of my last Mercedes, the W202 C230. Until its transmission began to go out, it had been a fun car to drive, always started, always kept me cool or warm as needed, got decent gas mileage (but not as good as I thought a 4-cylinder engine should), etc. A little pricey on some parts, but overall a *good* car.

Then the 5-speed "electronic" transmission began to stick at weird intervals and then slam into gear. The dealer and two independent shops all said that they could replace the controller unit for about $1500 . . . but none could say that it would 100% solve the problem!

This was at 11 years and 89,000 miles -- with two fluid and filter changes at the proper intervals behind it. Plus the sunroof had a persistent rattle, and the A/C flaps were starting to malfunction, too. So I bailed out and landed in the seat of my Buick.

I'm sure there have been thousands of that MB model, whether with the older 4-speed transmission or with the properly sorted 5-speed, that have been serving their owners faithfully. I expect I'll have another MB or a BMW someday. But part of luxury to me is reliability.

Sometimes I wish I'd bought the red-over-tan W123 300D turbodiesel sedan that I drove once as a loaner car in Denver. I might still be driving it now. Those cars were *tanks.*

 

[sprintman]

Code words for any BMW purchaser to learn well. Windows regulator, final stage resistor, thermostat, expansion tank, lost reverse in Steptronic, self adjusting clutch, clutch delay valve, control arm bushing and many many more.