Poll reports drinking in U.S. at record low

[KrisZ]

Yeah, that is not education.
They don't "sit" in a classroom all day. The point of education is also perseverance and patience. Something employers appreciate A LOT! Quick answers won't work when one goes for a job.
I think 46% of new graduates get fired in the first two weeks on the job because of dress code, being late, etc. They forgot I guess to look for that online.

That’s great if you just want to be a worker bee I guess. I wouldn’t call what you described an education either. Parents used to teach this stuff at the dinner table.

One thing is clear though, young males participation in higher education is dropping year after year. It’s a clear sign they do not see value in the current education system.

 

[Marrk]

Good question and I don’t know.
I would presume the education system should study these trends and adapt?

I'll put it this way: The regime of STEM tells us to go to college or university to get trained to get a job and make money. Let's say that you do that and have a perfect out come. You wind up at 45 with your pile of money. And nothing else. How's that going to feel? Think your life will have meaning and value? If it does not, do you tink you will know how to find meaning and value in life?

Well, at least you didn't waste your time on stupid stuff. Like art history.

 

[Marrk]

That’s great if you just want to be a worker bee I guess. I wouldn’t call what you described an education either. Parents used to teach this stuff at the dinner table.

One thing is clear though, young males participation in higher education is dropping year after year. It’s a clear sign they do not see value in the current education system.

Th current education is STEM. Get it now?

 

[KrisZ]

I'll put it this way: The regime of STEM tells us to go to college or university to get trained to get a job and make money. Let's say that you do that and have a perfect out come. You wind up at 45 with your pile of money. And nothing else. How's that going to feel? Think your life will have meaning and value? If it does not, do you tink you will know how to find meaning and value in life?

Well, at least you didn't waste your time on stupid stuff. Like art history.

Not exactly, that’s not what the STEM tells us. You see, we used to have this thing called gender roles. Men worked and women stayed home and raised family.

So it used to be the case where a young man would go out, got educated, found a nice girl along the way and then started a family with her, while working his butt off to provide. That in and of itself is quite fulfilling to a lot of men. So by the time he was 45, he had kids, wife and he was looking towards the future of his family.

Now, however it’s totally different and pretty much like you describe because most men and women are single and/or divorced. The whole family dynamic has been mostly destroyed and replaced by careers, leaving men and women without purpose once they hit their late 30s and 40s.

All pretty much because we told women they should prioritize career over family.

 

[edyvw]

That’s great if you just want to be a worker bee I guess. I wouldn’t call what you described an education either. Parents used to teach this stuff at the dinner table.

One thing is clear though, young males participation in higher education is dropping year after year. It’s a clear sign they do not see value in the current education system.

No, parents did not teach that at the dinner table. Parents teach reading, math, not complex reasearch etc. that requires perseverance and patientce.

One thing is clear though, young males participation in higher education is dropping year after year. It’s a clear sign they do not see value in the current education system.

Serious education is not McDonald's. That is the University of Phoenix, etc. (which mostly guarantees decline by serious employers. For example, Petterson SFB (NORTHCOM & NORAD) still has a ban on Phoenix recruiters there).
What do you think about how the curriculum is developed? We have meetings with local employers to see what THEY need from our graduates. In my field, I am in daily touch basically with all stakeholders in my field (NORTHCOM, NORAD, USAFA, CSPD, Sheriff's dept., FEMA, DHS, DoS, local emergency centers). They have internships for us. When we see that we need to update the curriculum, we have meetings with them. They are active participants in curriculum development. We just hired a new assistant professor (extensive emergency management experience in Norfolk, VA, Boulder, CO), and during the interview process, we had all stakeholders have a session with the interviewees and then sent feedback to us. If a "young male" wants a job in CSFD, CSPD, or the Federal government (DoD, DoS, DHS), they better go on board, because these employers don't give a crap what that "young male" thinks about what HE needs. Same goes form STEM. Our engineering department ahs hundreds of millions of dollars in grants from DARPA. You want to work on F47? Yeah, DARPA won't care whether that "young male" has an opinion about value. They want knowledge.
I had a case of a "young male" who wanted a job in the federal government, and we secured him an internship in the DoS (State Dept.) here in Colorado Springs. He said: Yeah, that is not worth my driving from my home (30 miles). So, someone else got an internship, and eventually got a job there. Case closed.

 

[edyvw]

Not exactly, that’s not what the STEM tells us. You see, we used to have this thing called gender roles. Men worked and women stayed home and raised family.

So it used to be the case where a young man would go out, got educated, found a nice girl along the way and then started a family with her, while working his butt off to provide. That in and of itself is quite fulfilling to a lot of men. So by the time he was 45, he had kids, wife and he was looking towards the future of his family.

Now, however it’s totally different and pretty much like you describe because most men and women are single and/or divorced. The whole family dynamic has been mostly destroyed and replaced by careers, leaving men and women without purpose once they hit their late 30s and 40s.

All pretty much because we told women they should prioritize career over family.

It is 21st century, not 19th!

The way we teach kids is archaic, no wonder they don’t want to sit in classes no more. Especially boys.

Those boys better get used to a female boss.

 

[edyvw]

I teach at a very low level. It's called "college," but it's really junior high with a driver's license. The ESL students are going to fake their way through. The rest only know what they've been told, i.e., go to college to get trained to get a job and make money. My students make up the base of the capitalist pyramid.

If you are teaching graduate-level STEM, you are training the technicians who will keep the machines running. What other graduate programs have any enrollments?

I am in the "national security" field. No problems. Also, criminal Justice is off the scale as well as emergency management.
What I see is that department leadership plays a more important role when it comes to enrolment than the field. OK some fields are dead, but generally it is leadership. We managed to make a big deal between Non-profit and religious studies. Literally, the philosophy chair came and said: Let's figure out something, my students need a job. We have a huge NPO presence here, and a lot is religious-based. And we did it.
A good example was (they are not anymore) the University of North Dakota. They had the best emergency management program in the country. People were flocking there. Few people left, and everything fell apart.
Then you have a lot of chairs and professors who think students are just going to walk in because, you know, they have a PhD. That works at Stanford or Harvard, not comprehensive or R2 schools, not even many R1.

 

[Marrk]

Not exactly, that’s not what the STEM tells us. You see, we used to have this thing called gender roles. Men worked and women stayed home and raised family.

So it used to be the case where a young man would go out, got educated, found a nice girl along the way and then started a family with her, while working his butt off to provide. That in and of itself is quite fulfilling to a lot of men. So by the time he was 45, he had kids, wife and he was looking towards the future of his family.

Now, however it’s totally different and pretty much like you describe because most men and women are single and/or divorced. The whole family dynamic has been mostly destroyed and replaced by careers, leaving men and women without purpose once they hit their late 30s and 40s.

All pretty much because we told women they should prioritize career over family.

Ah, good old family. Good old 1950s gender roles.

Simple ideas are soothing and comforting. Convenient, too. Nobody can handle complexity and ambiguity. Because they never studied that pesky art history, probably. Or any history. There's no "h" in STEM. Did you notice?

 

[KrisZ]

It is 21st century, not 19th!

Those boys better get used to a female boss.

And we’re bearing the fruits. The boys don’t have to do squat, that’s what they’ve realized. They don’t have to deal with a female boss or a beta male boss. Or the education system that teaches them that. The participation rates are the proof.

 

[KrisZ]

Ah, good old family. Good old 1950s gender roles.

Simple ideas are soothing and comforting. Convenient, too. Nobody can handle complexity and ambiguity. Because they never studied that pesky art history, probably. Or any history. There's no "h" in STEM. Did you notice?

I’m m not sure what your point is anymore.
The percentage of students pursuing one of the STEM fields is around 20%. Clearly there are plenty in the “creative” fields like arts and history.

Meanwhile, STEM is what makes this world run and always had. Without it, we’re back to caves.

 

[JeffKeryk]

A few (30 or so) years later, I recalled this, and thought "Gee, and now I would have to update my answer. Oh, wait ... not even a rounding error ..."

A prime example that sheds some perspective...

 

[ripcord]

Ah, good old family. Good old 1950s gender roles.

Simple ideas are soothing and comforting. Convenient, too. Nobody can handle complexity and ambiguity. Because they never studied that pesky art history, probably. Or any history. There's no "h" in STEM. Did you notice?

Ah, those wonderful art history classes where I learned that everything is relative, nothing is true, and the importance of evaluating everything through the lense of racism, classism, and gender inequality. No wonder kids today are depressed

 

[JeffKeryk]

Actually, it is not over. This will have costly consequences. We are still in stock-pumping time. When the crash comes, there will be realignment.
I am only teaching at graduate school. They must have B- to pass, and I am weighing now much more participation in class (discussion).

While I do not know what the future holds, I know it's coming. AI is an inflection point.
Embrace change; it's not like you have a choice.

 

[edyvw]

While I do not know what the future holds, I know it's coming. AI is an inflection point.
Embrace change; it's not like you have a choice.

AI is a tool. I can give you 3 examples from this morning where using AI doesn’t do anything, but might get you in deep trouble as an employee.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My espresso shots and Cappuccino w/1 sugar is far healthier IMO than 1 beer with dinner night after night IMO

Frappuccino would be outlawed in my America

I've met people who's "dinner" was pack of Marlboro Reds and an 8 pack of Budweiser

While I have several vices in this life, I'm glad alcohol is not one of them
My family was never a major consumer of alcohol, I eventually graduated to a glass of champagne on New Years

With how many people I've had to restrain, Ubers home to order and pay for, and keys I've had to rip out of people's hands, you won't catch me drinking heavy, it's too expensive and I don't much care for the taste

I had opportunities all my life; I threw them away. 1 can of Budweiser took me to places I could never have imagined.
I haven't had a drink in 38 years 8 months. And now I am in a place that I could never have imagined. A much better place.

 

[Dave Hess]

I had a case of a "young male" who wanted a job in the federal government, and we secured him an internship in the DoS (State Dept.) here in Colorado Springs. He said: Yeah, that is not worth my driving from my home (30 miles). So, someone else got an internship, and eventually got a job there. Case closed.

Yep. I’ve seen that before.

We had an apprentice (paid 1 year max) turn down multiple full-time jobs because it was too far away.
Job requires just an associates degree in electronics.

$75,000 starting pay
$5000 sign on bonus
$5000 relocation bonus
Overtime, 20 hours per month
On Call pay, $300 per week min just to answer phone during non business hours
Get called in it’s 4 hours min 1.5X pay
Tool allowance
Company car
Paid training

His apprenticeship ended and he was without a job. Now he’s calling looking at openings on careers page and wanting employee referral trying to get back to company.

I told him $100K his first year is much better than $0 and he will regret not taking a job where help was needed.
Guy was single, no kids and no strings keeping him hostage.

Economy is in shambles and hiring has slowed down, lots of job cuts in many industries.

Daily Job Cuts . Com

 

[edyvw]

Yep. I’ve seen that before.

We had an apprentice (paid 1 year max) turn down multiple full-time jobs because it was too far away.
Job requires just an associates degree in electronics.

$75,000 starting pay
$5000 sign on bonus
$5000 relocation bonus
Overtime, 20 hours per month
On Call pay, $300 per week min just to answer phone during non business hours
Get called in it’s 4 hours min 1.5X pay
Tool allowance
Company car
Paid training

His apprenticeship ended and he was without a job. Now he’s calling looking at openings on careers page and wanting employee referral trying to get back to company.

I told him $100K his first year is much better than $0 and he will regret not taking a job where help was needed.
Guy was single, no kids and no strings keeping him hostage.

Economy is in shambles and hiring has slowed down, lots of job cuts in many industries.

Daily Job Cuts . Com

My God.
It is not education. It is “know it all entitlement.”

 

[michaelluscher]

I was born in 1980,tomorrow to be exact. I love being the last part of Generation X

Watch out for me on the pavement tomorrow sir (respectfully)

 

[supton]

We had an apprentice (paid 1 year max) turn down multiple full-time jobs because it was too far away.
Job requires just an associates degree in electronics.

$75,000 starting pay
$5000 sign on bonus
$5000 relocation bonus
Overtime, 20 hours per month
On Call pay, $300 per week min just to answer phone during non business hours
Get called in it’s 4 hours min 1.5X pay
Tool allowance
Company car
Paid training

2 year degree for $75k and a free car? (ok not "free" but beats using up personal vehicle). I was a bit sad few years ago when I looked at my salary for a 4yr degree and how I was not really making that much more after 20 years. Looks like 80-90k is what EE's now make, starting out (link but I recall seeing similar info elsewhere).

And I certainly don't get overtime... that was quite the job to turn down. I don't get it, when I was young I was quite "hungry" for a paycheck.

Can't imagine, but I guess I grew up in a rural area and think nothing of an hour drive to get someplace.

 

[Number_35]

A prime example that sheds some perspective...

4,600,000,000 vs. 4,600,000,030, especially when the original was only estimated to two sig figs.