Point me towards my first ceramic coating

[SC Maintenance]

Just my view, but if you are not inclined to fully clean the substrate paint, using clay bar or similar, then it's a waste of time to use one of the pure ceramic coating products. Stick to the cheap stuff, like Turtle Wax or Griot's.

Can you explain this to me. Ceramic is supposed to both be much easier to apply and lasts longer than the old school stuff.

So if your goal is to simply preserve what you have, why would you not just use the latest technology, even if your not going for the full claybar custom finish show shine.

What part am I missing?

 

[SC Maintenance]

A proper paint correction is a series of steps. Wash, clay, repeat wash (optional), compound and/or polish (depends on the condition... be careful here, use the least abrasive/aggressive you can get away with), seal (ceramic/wax).

Not trying to correct anything. Simply trying to preserve what is there.

Does that change anything?

 

[trd1zz]

So if your goal is to simply preserve what you have, why would you not just use the latest technology, even if your not going for the full claybar custom finish show shine.

I'm at this point with one of my cars the clearcoat peeling/gone in many spots. I just wash and wax every 3 months trying to keep coating of wax on at all times.

 

[Nessism1]

Can you explain this to me. Ceramic is supposed to both be much easier to apply and lasts longer than the old school stuff.

So if your goal is to simply preserve what you have, why would you not just use the latest technology, even if your not going for the full claybar custom finish show shine.

What part am I missing?

It's bad science. The first step to any protection/preservation coating is to clean the substrate. What you propose is to seal over junk contamination imbedded into the paint already. Dumb.

 

[trd1zz]

It's bad science. The first step to any protection/preservation coating is to clean the substrate. What you propose is to seal over junk contamination imbedded into the paint already. Dumb.

At some point your only concern becomes the clearcoat / paint itself. You don't want the clear to fail (any abrasive just makes this worse). But more likely, the clear has already failed and you don't want the paint underneath to burn and fade any more than it already has - because then the panel itself is going to rust.

Nothing you can really do once you reach this stage other than make sure you always keep a sealant (wax) applied to whatever material you have left. Or, have the car repainted.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It's bad science. The first step to any protection/preservation coating is to clean the substrate. What you propose is to seal over junk contamination imbedded into the paint already. Dumb.

I keep reading this but no one can explain why.

First, there is no "paint". You have a galvanized panel covered by a primer / sealer covered by a thin layer of base coat / color covered by a layer of hard and UV protectant clear coat. So if the "junk" which has somehow magically embedded itself on the clear coat has not punctured completely through, then the clear is doing its job. And if it has punctured through then I am not sure removing it is a good idea.

Add to that these early low VOC base coats had a tendancy to lift from the primer / sealer. Mine did in one small spot. I corrected it and it hasn't gotten worse. I am loath to rub it very hard with anything.

So I am trying to understand why / how a clay bar actually helps me in my use case, but I have yet to get anything other than a "trust the science, but we won't explain the science" type answer.

Not looking for confirmation bias. Just looking for actual data beyond "because".

 

[crashz]

Normally the clay would lift and remove contaminants that you can't get out by washing. It also does a fine polishing from what I understand. Just like painting, the adherence of the coating will be much better with a clean surface. I have done this with other vehicles and its shocking how much grime comes out during the clay process. Important on good paint. But when the clear coat is failing and paint already compromised? Not sure.

I literally have some areas where the base paint has peeled. I had to clean, remove rust, prime and re-paint. I re-cleared that part of the panel too. But am I going to clay bar it? No. Its not an effort issue, its a paint thickness issue. I'm positive that my repair is not as good as the factory, and we already established that is junk, so rubbing it down further is going in the wrong direction. Like you, I simply want to protect the truck from rusting and prevent it from looking terrible. From 15ft away, it looks good. Up close, you see all the sins.

 

[thastinger]

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with every single statement. Never use dawn, especially with a clay towel (will shorten life). Chammy no, microfiber yes. Chemical guys generally not well reviewed. I guess I do agree with 3in1 not lasting for me.

No need to be sorry, this is the internet, it is just opinions.
I told the OP to use Dawn because he asked for a product to strip the old wax off....and Dawn WILL do that.

 

[The Critic]

I told the OP to use Dawn because he asked for a product to strip the old wax off....and Dawn WILL do that.

I don't agree. Depending on how chemical resistant his existing products are, Dawn may not remove. Also, Dawn tends to leave surfaces temporarily hydrophilic, so there is no guarantee that protection is actually gone.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The only thing that would be on it would be Carnuba, and that would be quite old now - maybe a year, can't remember. I am fine paying for a dedicated wax removing wash.

 

[Texchappy]

A clay towel (or even bar) would pretty much guarantee its removal. Another reason for doing it.

 

[JohnnyG]

OK, I really like the Griots 3 in 1, and use it as often as needed. Let me ask a question though. If you were just starting out, with a pretty new, pretty clean car how do you think this would work?

I had mine detailed before the Griots, but I'm wondering how this would do on a tight budget:
Clean the car as well as possible, then use a clay bar with Griots 3 in 1 as the lubricant. After the clay work is done, a final coat of Griots to finish up.

Thoughts?

 

[shortyb]

I get you want the "lazy man's way out" with this and not expend a lot of energy. Most of the off the shelf "ceramic" coating products use very little SiO2, and rely on typical polymers to provide most of the protection, sunscreen, and durability. However some work better than others from my experience. I used to do this with my take home cruiser (which was black) and I didn't want to expend much energy/effort at all. Got a fine clay MITT and used it to glide over the finish WHILE I washed it. Cleaned it well and left the paint very smooth. Then just used Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Wet Wax spray for the one step protection. Subsequent washings got the TW Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Wash & Wax to rejuvenate the finish. Not expensive for paint protection/maintenance, lasted quite a long time, keep the finish fresh looking, and the best of all, was extremely low effort. When I turned it in at my retirement, there were several folks that wanted it because it still looked great (almost new) after 5 years of being in all kinds of weather. Easy peasy.

 

[shortyb]

The only thing that would be on it would be Carnuba, and that would be quite old now - maybe a year, can't remember. I am fine paying for a dedicated wax removing wash.

After a year, I bet there is very little, if any, carnuba "wax" left on the finish. Using the clay mitt I suggested above will clean whatever is left on the paint just fine. Doing while you wash makes it super easy to get a clean finish.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I get you want the "lazy man's way out" with this and not expend a lot of energy. Most of the off the shelf "ceramic" coating products use very little SiO2, and rely on typical polymers to provide most of the protection, sunscreen, and durability. However some work better than others from my experience. I used to do this with my take home cruiser (which was black) and I didn't want to expend much energy/effort at all. Got a fine clay MITT and used it to glide over the finish WHILE I washed it. Cleaned it well and left the paint very smooth. Then just used Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Wet Wax spray for the one step protection. Subsequent washings got the TW Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Wash & Wax to rejuvenate the finish. Not expensive for paint protection/maintenance, lasted quite a long time, keep the finish fresh looking, and the best of all, was extremely low effort. When I turned it in at my retirement, there were several folks that wanted it because it still looked great (almost new) after 5 years of being in all kinds of weather. Easy peasy.

I could wash it with a mitt. Doesn't sound like much more work nor can it do much to the paint if its well lubed.

So looking up clay mitts - I can spend $5 to $50? Advice? I am fine paying $50 if there better.

 

[Texchappy]

Don’t have experience with $5 mits/towels. The one’s I have bought are between $20-$30 and they work well.

Also, have you ever looked into/used a rinseless product? If not, I’d suggest you might like them. They work very well, use less water, and take much less time to do a full wash. Still think your best bet would be to regularly use CarPro Ech2o or ONR wash and wax.

 

[Nessism1]

I could wash it with a mitt. Doesn't sound like much more work nor can it do much to the paint if its well lubed.

So looking up clay mitts - I can spend $5 to $50? Advice? I am fine paying $50 if there better.

Just get the Mothers kit...

https://www.amazon.com/Mothers-07240-California-Gold-System/dp/B0002U2V1Y

It goes pretty fast, unless your vehicles paint is a disaster, in which case, it's time well spent.

Based on that Project Farm test posted earlier, and recommendations here, I'm going to switch from Hybrid Solutions to Griot's. Modern technology is great! No more wax on, wax off. That was WORK. I'm too lazy, but want good results regardless.

 

[Toy4x4]

I keep reading this but no one can explain why.

First, there is no "paint". You have a galvanized panel covered by a primer / sealer covered by a thin layer of base coat / color covered by a layer of hard and UV protectant clear coat. So if the "junk" which has somehow magically embedded itself on the clear coat has not punctured completely through, then the clear is doing its job. And if it has punctured through then I am not sure removing it is a good idea.

Add to that these early low VOC base coats had a tendancy to lift from the primer / sealer. Mine did in one small spot. I corrected it and it hasn't gotten worse. I am loath to rub it very hard with anything.

So I am trying to understand why / how a clay bar actually helps me in my use case, but I have yet to get anything other than a "trust the science, but we won't explain the science" type answer.

Not looking for confirmation bias. Just looking for actual data beyond "because".

Think of it as how you used to spray paint a car. The fresh metal surface had to be clean of all oils, grime, dust, etc. otherwise the paint would be flawed and would not last long in those spots. Same principle here. Why seal in contaminants that will affect the durability of the ceramic? Granted, you have a vehicle that you want protected better, but it in not great shape to begin with. Using even a cheap clay mitt will help out (and maybe do it once a year???) and then put on a product that will at least last a year or is very easy to apply twice a year. I use Turtle Wax Hybrid Ceramic Spray. Spray on it sections and wipe off. Easy.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Careful now, "ceramic coating" has a specific meaning, being the pricey vials of product that are much more durable, but require proper preparation and application. It's an expensive product, and professionally applied, can run into the four figures in total cost to have a vehicle coated.

Some hardcore detailers can get their towels twisted in a bunch when it is mistakenly used to describe the OTC LSP products seen on store shelves. They might be marketed as "ceramic" but should be more accurately described as ceramic-infused, or analogous to the fruity drinks that have "x% juice" but are mostly sugar and water.

Given your prescribed use case, and desired level of effort, the Griot's product will suit your needs very well, and is readily available on store shelves.

With regard to the level of prep, if you've ever done any painting, you'll know that prep is most of the work, but doing it properly results in a better, more durable finish.

 

[shortyb]

I could wash it with a mitt. Doesn't sound like much more work nor can it do much to the paint if its well lubed.

So looking up clay mitts - I can spend $5 to $50? Advice? I am fine paying $50 if there better.

I've used The Rag Company Ultra mitt and Griots Fine Surface Prep mitt and liked both. I would consider the Ultra to be slightly more aggressive between the two, but still on the fine level.