PL14477 Autopsy

[ZeeOSix]

Maybe these guys who don't believe there's a problem with Purolators tearing media, and that it's perfectly OK to run an oil filter with tears in it might be plants from Purolator to try and make it look like a "non-issue". Good luck with that ... the guys with some common sense and logic who see the reported failures here know it's an issue that's not normal.

 

[FutureDoc]

Yeah, I am itching to take the P1 off the Subaru, only 400 miles to go before I hit 3K and heck, it is coming off and getting cut open.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, I am itching to take the P1 off the Subaru, only 400 miles to go before I hit 3K and heck, it is coming off and getting cut open.


Subarus typically have pretty high volume oil pumps, so those engines will definitely test the media's integrity against tearing. Is it a high set bypass valve P1 for the Subaru applications?

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yup, a failure.

A defect.

I have already provided some examples of failures.

At worst your picture illustrates filter media which allowed some small percentage of oil to avoid the media with no risk to your engine.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Maybe these guys who don't believe there's a problem with Purolators tearing media, and that it's perfectly OK to run an oil filter with tears in it might be plants from Purolator to try and make it look like a "non-issue". Good luck with that ... the guys with some common sense and logic who see the reported failures here know it's an issue that's not normal.

Apparently you don't understand, and don't want to understand, the difference between a failure - examples of which I provided - and a defect which does not appear to represent any significant threat to either the engine or the oil.

This anti-Purolator crusade reminds me of the anti-Mobil 1 crusade that overran BITOG a few years ago.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yup, a failure.

A defect.

I have already provided some examples of failures.



A defect implies an imperfection in the filter as-built. These tears are occurring in service. Meaning they fail in service. That's the definition of a failure. It is true you have provided examples of some spectacular failures, but the fact that these tears aren't as catastrophic as the examples you provided doesn't mean they are not failures as well. The difference is only in degree.

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D


At worst your picture illustrates filter media which allowed some small percentage of oil to avoid the media with no risk to your engine.


Allowing unfiltered oil to circulate in the engine on an ongoing basis defeats the purpose of the filter. By the way, how do you know it's a small percentage? You're assuming that. What percentage of unfiltered oil to filtered oil would you accept? How do you know what risk this presents to the engine? Again more wishful guessing on your part.

No rational person who is aware of these problems would choose to put a filter with a propensity to tear the media into service. I really don't understand why you constantly make excuses for well documented problems in these Purolators.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
A defect implies an imperfection in the filter as-built.

Apparently this imperfection is the source of small tears in filters which over the years have given no evidence of problems in design, materials, or construction.

Quote:
These tears are occurring in service. Meaning they fail in service. That's the definition of a failure.

Only by your made-to-order definition.

No one is arguing about the existence of small tears.

The cause(s) and interpretation are another matter. You're entitled to conclude as to whether or not you'd use a Purolator filter, but the overheated blather about "failures" is not seemly.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Maybe these guys who don't believe there's a problem with Purolators tearing media, and that it's perfectly OK to run an oil filter with tears in it might be plants from Purolator to try and make it look like a "non-issue". Good luck with that ... the guys with some common sense and logic who see the reported failures here know it's an issue that's not normal.

Apparently you don't understand, and don't want to understand, the difference between a failure - examples of which I provided - and a defect which does not appear to represent any significant threat to either the engine or the oil.

This anti-Purolator crusade reminds me of the anti-Mobil 1 crusade that overran BITOG a few years ago.


It's clearly a failure. It was manufactured without tears in the media, and the tears occurred during use ... hence, a failure.

Again ... this is NOT an "anti-Purolator crusade". Apparently you think that defects and failures are all nice and dandy in products. Like I said it doesn't matter what the brand name is on the side of the can, if it fails it fails, and it deserves to be scrutinized.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It's clearly a failure.

By your own declaration.

Quote:
Again ... this is NOT an "anti-Purolator crusade".

This from the author of "Tearolator".

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
No rational person who is aware of these problems would choose to put a filter with a propensity to tear the media into service. I really don't understand why you constantly make excuses for well documented problems in these Purolators.


Only a blind die-hard Purolator fan would makes excuses for an obvious failure issue.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It's clearly a failure.

By your own declaration.


Better than your definition, and others here agree with my definition. You're the odd man out with what you think the definition of a "failure" is.

Failure: omission of occurrence or performance; specifically a failing to perform a duty or expected action.

Obviously, if a full flow oil filter has tears in the media, it's not doing what it was designed to do.

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Quote:
Again ... this is NOT an "anti-Purolator crusade".

This from the author of "Tearolator".


So what. I think it's an appropriate nick-name. When Purolator gets their act together then maybe we will stop talking about this issue.

 

[ZeeOSix]

And BTW ... I didn't invent the term "Tearolator", but I like it.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Only a blind die-hard Purolator fan would makes excuses for an obvious failure issue.

There have been no excuses for defects. Nor is there an excuse for shrill name-calling.

Quote:
Obviously, if a full flow oil filter has tears in the media, it's not doing what it was designed to do.

Nobody has argued otherwise.

Quote:
So what. I think it's an appropriate nick-name.

Indeed you do. That rules you out as an objective subject matter expert.

I am very interested in explanations for an apparent defect in filters heretofore known for their performance made by one of the old names in the business. Is it a change in media suppliers, some change in the manufacturing procedures, or a failure in quality control? Your name-calling isn't shedding any light on it.

In any case, the defects noted to this point are picayune.

 

[HangFire]

I have to agree with ZeeOSix.

I've been buying P1's and Classics for 2 decades, I'm running one of each right now. I just bought a filter cutter and if either has a cut, tear or glue separation, that means I'm done with Purolator for a couple of decades.

The number of failures shown here on BITOG already passes 6 Sigma.

If correctly functioning filters didn't matter, we'd all be running bypasses by now, and recovering that extra .01MPG and 0.02HP, and manufacturers would be busy eliminating them as an expense.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Quote:
So what. I think it's an appropriate nick-name.

Indeed you do. That rules you out as an objective subject matter expert.

I am very interested in explanations for an apparent defect in filters heretofore known for their performance made by one of the old names in the business. Is it a change in media suppliers, some change in the manufacturing procedures, or a failure in quality control? Your name-calling isn't shedding any light on it.


If you've been keeping up with all this media tearing and the discussion threads, you'd see that I've shed as much light on it as possible - probably more than anyone else here. Just because I use endearing term "Tearolator" to describe the problem doesn't mean anything in terms of how "biased" I am or not. Others here use the term too. You think it does, but it really doesn't. If I was that biased and upset over it, I would have already removed the 2 PureOnes I currently have on my vehicles.

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
In any case, the defects noted to this point are picayune.


I think you're really the only one here who thinks the media tearing issue is "trivial".

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I think you're really the only one here who thinks the media tearing issue is "trivial".

Others have already pointed out the jumping to conclusions based on a few non-random samples. Since you have an axe to grind and prosecutor's demeanor, you're not in a position to claim others are less than objective.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I think you're really the only one here who thinks the media tearing issue is "trivial".

Others have already pointed out the jumping to conclusions based on a few non-random samples. Since you have an axe to grind and prosecutor's demeanor, you're not in a position to claim others are less than objective.


More are way more here who agree vs disagree that there is a problem going on with Purolators tearing media. You can bury your head in the sand and use Purolators all you want (or anyone else for that matter). If you don't like the way I discuss this issue then that's your problem due to your narrow viewpoint of the issue.

As the future Doc said, you don't need a huge population with an increased indecent of a problem to know there really is a problem. And like I said before, what makes you think that the only filters with tears in them happen to fall in the hands of BITOG members who also happen to cut open filters for inspection. You better go play the lottery tonight.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
More are way more here who agree vs disagree that there is a problem going on with Purolators tearing media.

If facts were a matter of public opinion you'd be on solid ground.

They're not.

So far we have some tiny tears. The first oil analysis in such a case showed no ill results.

Now, if you have some facts that contradict that, have at it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
More are way more here who agree vs disagree that there is a problem going on with Purolators tearing media.

If facts were a matter of public opinion you'd be on solid ground.

They're not.

So far we have some tiny tears. The first oil analysis in such a case showed no ill results.

Now, if you have some facts that contradict that, have at it.


I do have one fact ... you're the odd ball in all these media tear discussions. I think you just like opposing the obvious as a fishing exercise for something to do. You're bait stinks.

Where are your "facts" that a huge tear in a filter's media isn't doing any harm? The one Purolator Classic I posted had a hole so big it would be like running the filter in bypass 100% of the time, yet your comment was that it was "trivial".

Why don't you just take the oil filter off your car and plate off the mount because apparently in your mind it doesn't matter if you filter the oil or not.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Why don't you just take the oil filter off your car and plate off the mount because apparently in your mind it doesn't matter if you filter the oil or not.

Since I have not said that, it would appear you've run out of anything worth saying.

The small tears in the filter media should have no material effect on the filtration. They are miniscule in comparison to the oil that goes through the bypass, and miniscule in relation to the total filter media area.

I have already noted an actual oil analysis from a vehicle the Purolator made filter of which exhibited these tears, an oil analysis which indicated NO effect from the tears on particulates or engine wear.

Those are those the facts.