Pictures of what's in New Oil

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Stinky Peterson

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Bismarck, North Dakota
I haven't figured out how to post pictures so here but this is a link to some microscope pictures of new oil sent to our lab. These are not exceptions but rather typical of new oils. I have not found one brand to be dirtier than another, it seems to be a universal problem. For this reason I do not recommend prefilling filters since anything dumped into to core of the filter gets a free ride to the engine bearings.

New Oil Pictures

Stinky
 
This is some new information. We need to consider it carefully and maybe rethink some things like prefilling. Assembly Lube? We really need some data on the size of the particles. Are they something the filters will filter out?
 
One of the many reasons I love my Motor Guard bypass filter.
grin.gif
 
OK I have a problem with this. First of all 5-10 microns is smaller then most filters can filter out period if this was the case you'd be in trouble either way.

Second you said it may take several passes to take the stuff out, so why should we be worried about them missing the first pass if they might anyway.

Third I have a hard time believing there are this many particles in new oil. Wouldn't we be seeing high insolubles in a VOA? What kind of oils are these? Are you sure these aren't external contaminants?

-T
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stinky Peterson:
Glad you like them.

I moved the pictures to: Here

and started a page for sample reports of new oil as well.

Stinky
Click to expand...
Stinky, would you describe how the samples are prepared to photograph them? Is that just a thin (how thin?) sample on a slide, or was something done to concentrate the crud?

Do you have any pictures of used oil out of a well but not fanatically filtered healthy engine?
 
Hi XS

U-betcha, in fact here is a link that shows you how - Prep for Microscope

We use a vacuum filter funnel and either the manifold or vacuum filter flask. The filters are a 5 micron membrane filer. We dilute the oil with 3 parts filter kerosene to 1 part oil and the pour the into the funnel. We always use the same amount of oil so we can compare one sample to the next. Of course the sample has to be well mixed before it is diluted with kerosene. Next we wash away the oil with filtered heptane. You can use other solvents but we use heptane because it evaporates really fast. After it's dry we put it in a petri dish and inspect it with our light microscope.

We do have lots of samples of used oil but the ones I usually take pictures of are the bad. We recently started a contamination control campaign and have started taking pictures of the new oils that come in so we can get the message across to our customers that their oil is not clean. Most people are downright shocked to see how contaminated it is! (including myself)

I'll keep my eye out for some gas engines samples and see if I can post a few pictures for engines without special filtering. I did post some reports of new oils.

Hope this helps
Stinky

[ December 07, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Stinky Peterson ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stinky Peterson:
Hi XS

U-betcha, in fact here is a link that shows you how - Prep for Microscope


Hope this helps
Stinky
Click to expand...
Thank, I don't think I will be duplicating your procedure at home anytime soon.
shocked.gif


Thanks for sharing and keep the pictures coming.
 
Hi T-Keith,

Most of these particles are a lot bigger than 10 microns and are easily filtered. To get maximum life it helps to get the small ones out too. I myself don't want this garbage in my oil but unless someone pre-fills the filter then the big chunks will be caught the first time. By pre-filling you are actually bypassing the filter and putting the junk right into the engine.

I've never been a big fan of total solids and don't have much experience with this test so I don't have a good answer. I would expect these particles to show up if the test is done correctly. There are however a lot better methods of measuring solids.

You are absolutely right about this being outside contamination, unfortunately the oil is contaminated before it gets to the end user. Take a look at the reports I posted, they represent about 10 or more different brands of oil, several of which came from quart containers. Most of these are 15W40 diesel engine oils but I have tried to include a few reports of gas engine oils too.

When I am talking about several passes that is to get to ISO 16/13. Several studies show that a reduction of one ISO class will increase bearing life (ball/roller) by 5 times or more. We work with heavy equipment and have transmissions that cost $100,000, but the same principals apply to small gas and diesel engines and auto transmissions. Keep it cool and clean and it will last a long time.

Stinky

Next time you send in a sample of new oil ask for a particle count and patch test.
 
This looks to reinforce the notion that 3000 miles OCI can actually hurt an engine! If this is what we are adding to an engine during an oil change I would like to do as few as possible!
 
How do we know these aren't simply coagulated particles of additives, except for SNAG-005, which appears to be metallic components and the worst of the lot.

I.E., are these particles solubles or insolubles (hard) materials?
 
Call me paranoid, but I was always worried more about what is in a new filter than I am about the oil. Some of the japanese cover their filters with plastic--I like that better than having an open ended filter in a box. How long has the filter sat there on dusty shelves? How many people have opened that box, taken out the filter and looked at it and put it back into the box? And some of those boxes are in pretty sad shape. Going further, how clean was the environment they made these things in?
 
That is an informative bunch of information - Thanks!
Yea... I really like my bypass filters. I have been tempted to get a particle count done on my used oil.
 
quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
How do we know these aren't simply coagulated particles of additives, except for SNAG-005, which appears to be metallic components and the worst of the lot.

I.E., are these particles solubles or insolubles (hard) materials?
Click to expand...
[in the voice of Old Lodge Skins]: "that's a good question, my son..."

Another question is would additives clump up like that and then be filtered out, leaving the oil additive-less?

Bob W.
 
I think we're all getting worried about nothing here. Think about it folks, how many of you have gotten UOAs on here with very low engine wear? So obviously we aren't pouring "liquid sand" into our engines now are we? No.
 
quote:
Wait to Gary Allen sees these pics, he'll cream his shorts.
Click to expand...
Err ..I'm a little messy here ..but
grin.gif


Looks like I just found a use for those 1um filter socks that I have laying around, huh?

Now let's see ...this could be a niche market here ...
-


(hands cupped yelling across the shop)

Tony!! I think I got another item for site sponsorship!

I wonder if this is the source of sharp upramp in wear metals in the 2-3k range ..having them taper off after that (as someone else sorta eluded to here ..Surprise??).
 
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