No it goes right into the sump and gets splshed around the cylinders and wristpins - then through the pickup and filter at some point .... a big particle ( or small one for that matter) could get immediately stuck in the 3rd or 2nd ring.
Picking a decent oil...
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So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, that is the primary lubrication mechanism. But you step on the gas and oil will climb up around the rear of the crank and get spun up. There is always SOME slash lube when driving - be it intentional or not. Some Windage control is better than others. There really is no splash on high rpm engines even at low speed = it more of a aerodynamic pumping and fanning as parts are moving VERY fast even at 1200 rpm.
If you put used oil into the car - I would run it through a coarse filter first (if even a shop cloth). But if you let her idle for a bit most of the sump will go through the filter B4 you drive off. Carry On!
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, that is the primary lubrication mechanism. But you step on the gas and oil will climb up around the rear of the crank and get spun up. There is always SOME slash lube when driving - be it intentional or not. Some Windage control is better than others. There really is no splash on high rpm engines even at low speed = it more of a aerodynamic pumping and fanning as parts are moving VERY fast even at 1200 rpm.
If you put used oil into the car - I would run it through a coarse filter first (if even a shop cloth). But if you let her idle for a bit most of the sump will go through the filter B4 you drive off. Carry On!
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
Originally Posted By: VinceF
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
I thought some oiling systems were designed to oil the cyls by oil coming from the side of the crank bearings to splash on the walls, but most had holes in the rods and bearings to squirt oil up the walls.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
I thought some oiling systems were designed to oil the cyls by oil coming from the side of the crank bearings to splash on the walls, but most had holes in the rods and bearings to squirt oil up the walls.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, that is the primary lubrication mechanism. But you step on the gas and oil will climb up around the rear of the crank and get spun up. There is always SOME slash lube when driving - be it intentional or not. Some Windage control is better than others. There really is no splash on high rpm engines even at low speed = it more of a aerodynamic pumping and fanning as parts are moving VERY fast even at 1200 rpm.
If you put used oil into the car - I would run it through a coarse filter first (if even a shop cloth). But if you let her idle for a bit most of the sump will go through the filter B4 you drive off. Carry On!
Thanks for the tip. Guess I'll let the car idle longer after changing the oil, to pass it all through the filter.
I used to get valves tapping for a while when changing oil, so fill the new filters with oil. Takes time with the drain back seal I have to push on to open. That gets fresh oil from a qt bottle.
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, that is the primary lubrication mechanism. But you step on the gas and oil will climb up around the rear of the crank and get spun up. There is always SOME slash lube when driving - be it intentional or not. Some Windage control is better than others. There really is no splash on high rpm engines even at low speed = it more of a aerodynamic pumping and fanning as parts are moving VERY fast even at 1200 rpm.
If you put used oil into the car - I would run it through a coarse filter first (if even a shop cloth). But if you let her idle for a bit most of the sump will go through the filter B4 you drive off. Carry On!
Thanks for the tip. Guess I'll let the car idle longer after changing the oil, to pass it all through the filter.
I used to get valves tapping for a while when changing oil, so fill the new filters with oil. Takes time with the drain back seal I have to push on to open. That gets fresh oil from a qt bottle.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: VinceF
Originally Posted By: VinceF
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
I thought some oiling systems were designed to oil the cyls by oil coming from the side of the crank bearings to splash on the walls, but most had holes in the rods and bearings to squirt oil up the walls.
No, the walls are lubricated by the oil fed to the rod bearings, not the crank bearings.
The crank provides lube to the bearing/journal through the hole (or holes) in the journal. As oil is pressure-fed to these interfaces there is of course a small gap on either side between the rod and the crank (and in the middle, the rod and its neighbouring rod) from which a spray of oil comes out of that lubricates the cylinder walls as the rod makes its way 'round the journal.
Now, there are some engines with piston squirters, which spray oil on the bottom of the piston to cool it (Ford Coyote for example) but that doesn't lubricate the walls of the cylinder, as that is done in the way in which I've described.
Of course there are always exceptions too. I imagine there are engines out there that use a hole in the bearing and rod to potentially aide in lubricating the walls, but that hasn't been the case for any of the engines I've ever had apart. YMMV.
Originally Posted By: VinceF
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: VinceF
So the oil gets splashed even if the oil level is right? Thought that only could happen if the sump was over full and the crank was getting into it. Don't the rods squirt oil up the cyl walls?
Yes, the cylinder walls are lubricated by the oil spray coming out the side of the bearings. For the counter-weights on the crank to be hitting the oil in the pan it would have to be significantly over-full.
I thought some oiling systems were designed to oil the cyls by oil coming from the side of the crank bearings to splash on the walls, but most had holes in the rods and bearings to squirt oil up the walls.
No, the walls are lubricated by the oil fed to the rod bearings, not the crank bearings.
The crank provides lube to the bearing/journal through the hole (or holes) in the journal. As oil is pressure-fed to these interfaces there is of course a small gap on either side between the rod and the crank (and in the middle, the rod and its neighbouring rod) from which a spray of oil comes out of that lubricates the cylinder walls as the rod makes its way 'round the journal.
Now, there are some engines with piston squirters, which spray oil on the bottom of the piston to cool it (Ford Coyote for example) but that doesn't lubricate the walls of the cylinder, as that is done in the way in which I've described.
Of course there are always exceptions too. I imagine there are engines out there that use a hole in the bearing and rod to potentially aide in lubricating the walls, but that hasn't been the case for any of the engines I've ever had apart. YMMV.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Here's a Goldwing engine. You'll notice the oil path through the journal and then the sideways arrow across it with the oil drops coming out of it. That's your cylinder lubrication.
And an animation showing what I'm talking about (sorry, the video is long, start at 4:00 to see it):
And an animation showing what I'm talking about (sorry, the video is long, start at 4:00 to see it):
I had meant from the rods that are on the crank, not the crank journals.
Would like to get the straight dope on what is in oils. Looking at different MSDS's of QSUD oils, some say the base oil is Slack Wax, which I would be comfy with, and others don't say. Mainly interested in the 5W30, and 10W30. One MSDS says the 10W30 had a pour point of -45*C, and another -1*C/0*F. Thinking of calling, but reading some replies of people who call the Co's, sounds like either the Co. reps don't know, make things up, or just try to confuse callers. Co's like Mobil seem easy to figure, when they list and change OCI from 25K to 15K. Seems like you can kinda figure what they are saying or did. Read one article saying, they list 100% Synthetic on the front of the bottle, and on the back mention, except for additives that are mixed with mineral oil. The article said, that could be 20% of the oil. Not a big deal, but seems misleading, but what is the 80%? Might be something other Co's use and sell cheaper.
Would like to know what I am buying, and not think it's one thing, then find out it is another. With the QSUD, I'd be comfy if it was a Gr111 allowed to be called Synthetic, but which one or kind? With an old car I was comfortable I was changing the oil to something with a modern rating, like SL, or now SN, but with a new car I want to know!! Don't want to be paying more for something I could get cheaper, or not as good as I think. I have a friend who swears by Mobil 1, and thinks they are still or all Synthetic, or what they used to be, which I don't, and he may be paying more than he should, and I think he might be getting over charged or ripped off.
Would like to know what I am buying, and not think it's one thing, then find out it is another. With the QSUD, I'd be comfy if it was a Gr111 allowed to be called Synthetic, but which one or kind? With an old car I was comfortable I was changing the oil to something with a modern rating, like SL, or now SN, but with a new car I want to know!! Don't want to be paying more for something I could get cheaper, or not as good as I think. I have a friend who swears by Mobil 1, and thinks they are still or all Synthetic, or what they used to be, which I don't, and he may be paying more than he should, and I think he might be getting over charged or ripped off.
Good luck finding out basestocks on major oil brands** - we used to dig up Korean MSDS and saw a few years ago(before the VISOM changover - XoM version of slack wax) M1 AFE 0w30 was primarily group 4 - same with M1HM10w30 API-Sl and the astounding 10w40 synthetic Motorbike oil. WEith visom and a reform, all the cold specs have taken a step back, but I dont care as 0W doesnt apply for New England,. The oil newXoM blend feels different in the engine and not in a positive way - I dont use them currently.
Cold pour point-
I would suggest you ignore pour point - its a worthless spec; look instead at CCS and MRV.
Subjectively, Given its low engine noise and spec, the blend and package used in QSUD 0w20 appears to good stuff for the price. As is Pennzoil(helix) Ultra and EDGE w/Ti for a HIGH price.
If you spec a German or French, technically true synthetic Lube, you may find Motul forthcoming and Possibly FUCHS and in boutiques REDLINE and Amsoil. Not Royal Purple on their street oils. I dont run mid/high HTHS lubes currently so I havent been researching Eurolubes lately.
Never believe ANYTHING a tech support guy tells you about lubes basestock unless he/she/it has the documentation to back it up.
Good luck
Im the contributor that calls north american synthetic "FAUXSYN" or fake syns as Ive become so disallusioned by the nefarious marketing turns of the major oil co's.
Cold pour point-
I would suggest you ignore pour point - its a worthless spec; look instead at CCS and MRV.
Subjectively, Given its low engine noise and spec, the blend and package used in QSUD 0w20 appears to good stuff for the price. As is Pennzoil(helix) Ultra and EDGE w/Ti for a HIGH price.
If you spec a German or French, technically true synthetic Lube, you may find Motul forthcoming and Possibly FUCHS and in boutiques REDLINE and Amsoil. Not Royal Purple on their street oils. I dont run mid/high HTHS lubes currently so I havent been researching Eurolubes lately.
Never believe ANYTHING a tech support guy tells you about lubes basestock unless he/she/it has the documentation to back it up.
Good luck
Im the contributor that calls north american synthetic "FAUXSYN" or fake syns as Ive become so disallusioned by the nefarious marketing turns of the major oil co's.
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Found something explaining oils that I thought was interesting.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends
For those who want to read the whole story.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/472/base-oil-industry
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/472/base-oil-industry
Does synthetic oil and the mineral oil called synthetic behave the same? Does the min oil still need the stuff that makes them thicker when hot to make them a multi visc?
You may want to look at the basestock VI to answer that - the lower the VI the more vii you may require in your finished product to achieve a multigrade spec regardless of group III IV or V stocks.
Motor oil is not "thicker when hot". I suggest some more reading - see newtonian and non-newtonial fluid behavior.
Some PAO boutique oil may require no VII for certain 30 multigrades.
I would guess you could blend a 20w20 "racing" oil from high VI stocks with little to no vii.
Motor oil is not "thicker when hot". I suggest some more reading - see newtonian and non-newtonial fluid behavior.
Some PAO boutique oil may require no VII for certain 30 multigrades.
I would guess you could blend a 20w20 "racing" oil from high VI stocks with little to no vii.
Isn't it the Higher the VI the better?
Originally Posted By: VinceF
Isn't it the Higher the VI the better?
Yes it is as long as the oil doesn't shear too much in service and most higher VI 0W/5w30 oils have acceptable shear stability.
Isn't it the Higher the VI the better?
Yes it is as long as the oil doesn't shear too much in service and most higher VI 0W/5w30 oils have acceptable shear stability.
I've been going with 5W30 in the winter, and 10W30 in the summer and been looking at the HTHS #'s.
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