Pentosin CHFS11

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TrevorS

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In my Mercedes, Pentosin CHF11S is in the owners manual as the PSF.

Doing a little research, other Mercedes are often spec'd with other power steering fluids.

I noticed that my PSF level is a little high. I was wondering why since it's quite a new car and the CHF11S is lifetime fill. I wouldn't expect it to be overfilled from the factory. The dealer service depts shouldn't have needed to top it up.

So I looked up the CHF11S and apart from finding out that it's an expensive full syn, I found out its dyed green.

So I went to the car and checked the color and it is a light brown, just like used motor oil.

So what has happened?:

Has the dye worn off?
Was the original CHF11S not green?
Is it some other factory fill?
Has it been topped up with something else that removed the green color?

No service record shows the PSF having been touched but of course small top offs might be performed but not mentioned.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
In my Mercedes, Pentosin CHF11S is in the owners manual as the PSF.

Doing a little research, other Mercedes are often spec'd with other power steering fluids.

I noticed that my PSF level is a little high. I was wondering why since it's quite a new car and the CHF11S is lifetime fill. I wouldn't expect it to be overfilled from the factory. The dealer service depts shouldn't have needed to top it up.


So I looked up the CHF11S and apart from finding out that it's an expensive full syn, I found out its dyed green.

So I went to the car and checked the color and it is a light brown, just like used motor oil.

So what has happened?:

Has the dye worn off?
Was the original CHF11S not green?
Is it some other factory fill?
Has it been topped up with something else that removed the green color?

No service record shows the PSF having been touched but of course small top offs might be performed but not mentioned.

Real CHF 11S is green and very stable so it looks as though someone has indeed topped of your vehicle with a different fluid.
 
CHF202 has superseded 11S and is a bit cheaper.

For what it's worth, when I changed my old Audi's 11S, it was barely even green anymore. I know it's a sealed system, but it can still get dirty and I suspect the dyes don't last forever.
 
Hello, The P/S pump in a 1999 car I was going to buy was growling. Someone had added red fluid (transmission fluid, most likely). A flush and change over to the Pentosin CHF-11S you mentioned bought me 40,000 miles of quiet driving.

Then the pump began growling loudly all of a sudden. I didn't mess around. I bought a pump from a 2000 from which pale green Pentosin dripped as I left the junk yard. All was well after that.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad but the sooner you get the WRONG FLUID out of you system, the less time it will have to damage your pump. I would go to the dealer and have a work order made out under warranty. Get it into their system as a mishandled prep.

Show them the brown fluid and tell them what you think happened. Remind them the Pentosin CHF-11S is pale green. Be simple, direct and clear. Tell M.B. HQ if they give you any guff or fail to write it up completely.

There's a good chance some well intended kid at the dealership errantly contaminated your system. Kira
 
newer MB cars are not designed to use ordinary ATF in the power steering. the sealing in both the pump but most important the steering rack will die very quickly.

i have personally changed at least 20 steering racks because people filled them with ATF.

i would get it flushed and filled with the correct pentosin fluid soon as possible.
 
Wow thanks for all the really informed responses!

I am onto the dealer about this.

To answer some responses / questions:

CHF202 is not Mercedes approved but it is dark green!

The cap doesn't say anything. Mercedes state the requirement in the manual. Other Mercedes get recommended other fluids. Their BEVO sheets contain yet other PSFs but after a little digging, you can figure out that they seem to have different fluid requirements for different models and that my model does indeed spec the CHF11S as stated in the manual.
 
Most later model European cars (early 90s and afterwards) require a dedicated power steering fluid and you should NEVER use ATF unless the owner's manual specifically calls for it. One of the most common is Pentosin CHF-11S, or CHF 202, they are both correct.

Another equivalent is Febi 06161 which is the alternate supplier to most of the major manufacturers.
 
The only way to tell is to have the Mercedes dealer run the VIN through their system and see exactly what type of fluid it requires. I've heard that it may vary depending on what options the car has.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Any chance that factory fill was not green color but still CHF11S?

Yes, as dparm noted, the colour goes away after a time. That was the case with my Audi. Perhaps different brands of the approved fluid have slightly different colours, too. I haven't compared them side by side, but I've used fluids from Pentosin, Bilstein, and VW/Audi.
 
I would not use color as an indicator.

MB Sleet 345.0 specifies models where CHF 11S applies, specifically:

Power steering: Model 168, 171, 199, 203, 204, 209, 211, 215, 216, 219, 220, 221, 230, 240, 414 Van T0, T1N at outside temperatures of less than -25°C

ATF is not truly a proper PSF ever. Sheet 236.3 fluids fall in line with the 236.x gear/transmission oils line, but really are specific to PS. The proper MB PSF that meets 236.3 (as well as the suitable replacements) are NOT dyed red either, to not be confused for ATF.

People have reported seal issues running ATF in place of 236.3 as far back as the w116/107/123 era at least.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

CHF202 is not Mercedes approved but it is dark green!


202 supersedes 11S. It is 100% backward compatible. 11S will get phased out. Some dealers may already be stocking 202.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

CHF202 is not Mercedes approved but it is dark green!


202 supersedes 11S. It is 100% backward compatible. 11S will get phased out. Some dealers may already be stocking 202.


According to the Spec Sheets, 202 covers more recent models and 11S models up to 2006ish. But 202 isn't approved or spec'd for any BMW or Mercedes yet. I won't use it until it is.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I would not use color as an indicator.

MB Sleet 345.0 specifies models where CHF 11S applies, specifically:

Power steering: Model 168, 171, 199, 203, 204, 209, 211, 215, 216, 219, 220, 221, 230, 240, 414 Van T0, T1N at outside temperatures of less than -25°C

ATF is not truly a proper PSF ever. Sheet 236.3 fluids fall in line with the 236.x gear/transmission oils line, but really are specific to PS. The proper MB PSF that meets 236.3 (as well as the suitable replacements) are NOT dyed red either, to not be confused for ATF.

People have reported seal issues running ATF in place of 236.3 as far back as the w116/107/123 era at least.


Yes I went through the Mercedes sheets to confirm what was in my owners manual.

Pentosin confirmed their factory fill is green and that the color does not wear out. So only something mixed in would change the color.

There are three possibilities;

1) Mercedes factory filled with their own product that has no color
2) The CHF11S has attracted water somehow and has changes color and increased its level. I am stating this as a layman with no understanding of chemistry but did read that the fluid is fully miscible
3) A prior dealer did an incorrect top up

I've contacted Mercedes as the dealer did not agree. Worst case is I'll do this myself.

It seems it will be best to run the system dry and refill rather than do drain and fills. Any thoughts on any specific procedures?
 
I don't know what you mean by "Run the system dry" but if you run your Mercedes system dry...meaning that the pump has no fluid in the reservoir and the engine is turning, then you will destroy the pump. How much this costs you depends on your model...but on my S600, because the pump powers the suspension as well as steering, the part alone is $3,000. That is not a misprint. Labor and the subsequent suspension and steering flush double the cost.

Bleed it with the engine running to flush the fluid, but make sure that you're feeding fluid into that reservoir as you run it so that the pump continues to have a head of fresh fluid and NEVER runs dry.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Astro. Yes very bad choice of words / explaining on my part.

I was thinking that some people get air in their system when doing a flush. For that to happen must mean there was not continuous fluid and at some point the reservoir went dry.

But I understand what you are saying in terms of process.

Have you done it and was there any air to get rid of?
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

CHF202 is not Mercedes approved but it is dark green!


202 supersedes 11S. It is 100% backward compatible. 11S will get phased out. Some dealers may already be stocking 202.


According to the Spec Sheets, 202 covers more recent models and 11S models up to 2006ish. But 202 isn't approved or spec'd for any BMW or Mercedes yet. I won't use it until it is.



If you go in the BMW parts catalog and try to get 11S, it will tell you that part is no longer available and it was replaced with 202.

Pentosin's own datasheets say it's backward compatible.
 
Ok well I'm not interested in what BMW say as I'm using it in a Mercedes!

Pentosin data sheets says 202 and 11S are miscible but they haven't updated them or contain any duplicate approvals or specified for listings.

So this is not the same as saying they are backward compatible since manufacturers have not all approved 202 use.
 
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