Penrite 10-Tenths Racing (10w40) - aussies?

[zaibatsu]

Thanks virginoil. Any suggestions why fuel economy seems to have dropped?

May possibly be the weather that also just heated up quite a bit here. But surely 4.5 vs 4.0 cP is going to generate more drag / heat and result in a drop in economy?

I'm open to correction, and should give it a few more weeks before jumping to conclusions. Just curious.

 

[virginoil]

There could be a multitude of reasons why fuel economy has got worse such as
poor fuel quality ie bad batch,
seasonal changes and mixing by blender,
how you measure fuel economy,
accuracy of different pumps,
human error in recording of mileage traveled or volume of fuel used
traffic idling,
mix of city or country ie fwy driving
change to driving route
time to replace plugs or leads
blocked fuel filter
oxygen sensors to be replaced
fuel pressure regulator check
thermostat in radiator is stuck open and engine is always running cold

To minimize possible errors when I measure economy I suggest:
measure the fuel economy over 5 or 6 week period
drive the same route if possible
drive using the same style
buy from the same service station
fill up at the same mark on the fuel gauge eg fill up when it is 1/4 mark
try to use the same fuel grade eg premium keep using premium
fill from the same pump

Some say the above is not necessary I don't care, I try to keep the conditions when measuring mpg the same or as consistent as possible.

 

[zaibatsu]

Yeah, I use the same station / 98RON always, and my driving patterns haven't changed. The car is very low km and I've owned it for most of them so everything is in check.

I have a feeling what I've experienced is a combination of the thicker functional viscosity of the new oil combined with whatever shear / dilution affected the old oil. Was a long interval and had a hard run.

It occurred to me that even though the numbers aren't that far apart on the spec sheets, the actual change may have been more significant. I do still feel 0.5 cP HTHS is significant, considering ~0.7 is the average difference between a 30 and 40wt - unsure how much this loaded number affects economy vs. static cSt@100 though.

I may try a lighter grade next time.

 

[supercity]

What is the difference in fuel economy?

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: supercity
What is the difference in fuel economy?


What is the difference ?

Please state what the L/100km or mpg also, so that the difference can expressed as approx percentage.

 

[zaibatsu]

Didn't bother replying because I was going by subjective measures - how fast the fuel gauge dropped (noticeably faster than usual) and how the car felt under acceleration. Non-quantifiable I know, but I've owned and driven the car long enough to notice when things change significantly. No reason to make things up, as I was keen to make this stuff work.

I ended up blending 1L of 0w20 (Racing 0 - HTHS 2.5cP) with 2.5L of 10w40 (Racing 10, HTHS 4.49cP), which (assuming linearity) should give a cP of roughly 3.92 to match the oil I was running previously. I had enough 10w40 leftover to give it a fresh change, figured a flush wouldn't hurt anyway as the previous OCI was long and dirty.

Fuel economy seems back to normal now, and the car does not seem reluctant to rev anymore. Pretty much feels identical to how it ran on the RP on all counts.

If all is still well after 5k, I will run the same blend again.

I stand by my prediction that the HTHS value has a noticeable effect on performance and economy after this experience (much more than cSt@40/@100 values) - the value for their 10w40 is substantially higher than most 40wt oils, about the same jump as from 30wt to 40wt in other oils.

Edit - I know HTHS probably isn't a linear relationship but it looks like my estimation was close enough, happy with the results.

 

[virginoil]

I spoke to Penrite Techline today regarding the 1680ppm for Zinc and I was informed that at these levels the Phosophorus levels are approx 90% of Zn ie the Ph is approx 1500ppm.

These levels are still high compared with the upper limit max of 1100ppm for Ph ie approx 40% too high. I discussed the potential poisoning of the catalytic convertor and I was told that they have not had any reports.

The Penrite lube recommendation also recommends the Racing 10w40 for some 2013 model vehicles. I have noticed the Penrite non racing high performance full PAO and Ester engine oil the Ten Tenths Premium range oils ie 0w50, 5w60 and 10w70 have the same Zinc concentration, ie 1680ppm, which is the same level as the Ten Tenths Racing Oils.

Is this of concern OR are the fears regarding CAT poisoning due to high Ph levels over rated given Penrite's approach.

Yeah I know there are other oils that comply with the standrad max Ph limit, I thought I would raise it as general discussion issue

 

[supercity]

What standard maximum Phosphorous limit? They all meet the requirements of the API and other approvals they claim afaik. And that's the point, none of these oils meet any sort of modern manufacturer approvals.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: supercity
What standard maximum Phosphorous limit? They all meet the requirements of the API and other approvals they claim afaik. And that's the point, none of these oils meet any sort of modern manufacturer approvals.



I thought the upper limit for Ph is around 1000ppm to 1100pm, this is the standard range I was referring to.

Newer vehicles with latest spec's are in the 600ppm to 800ppm range.

The VOA for Redline 10w40 had Ph at 1340ppm.

 

[supercity]

For a 10w40 to meet ACEA A3/B4-10 it must contain a minimum of 1.0% SA and can have a maximum of 1.6%! AFAIK Phosporous just needs to be reported.

For a 10w40 to meet API SN, it must exceed 0.06% Phosporous, there is no maximum.

Once you get down to the Ilsac grades (Xw20 and Xw30) it is very different. Penrite Racing 5w30 is API SL, it does not meet SN

 

[virginoil]

I inferred the limits I have stated from the Ph levels usually stated on the PDS of oils such as Mobil.

So are you saying Ph level 1500ppm is OK according to the A3/B4-10 and should not impact on CAT.

 

[supercity]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
I inferred the limits I have stated from the Ph levels usually stated on the PDS of oils such as Mobil.

So are you saying Ph level 1500ppm is OK according to the A3/B4-10 and should not impact on CAT.


From what I understand there is no arbitrary phosphorous level where there will be no impact on the cat. Rather the less there is, the longer the cat will last. Even low saps oils will have some impact on the cat, all things equal.

I personally would not be worried about the cat if the engine is running well and using little oil. At the end of the day, in Australia you will still pass a roadworthy even if the cat is ineffective.

 

[Alfa156Melb]

Reviving an old thread

Regarding your concern about cat poisoning - its a matter of balance. For a start, high zinc oils like Penrite still take 200,000 to 250,000 kms to poison a cat anyway..

If you have an engine that is sensitive to oil, for example and Alfa engine where the cams are tall and pointy and by way of design can wear very quickly if a low zinc oil is used.. So IMO, running Penrite 10 Tenths Premuim or Racing with high zinc levels is perfect good for such an engine as the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages..

The later Alfa engines with roller rockers can run on the eco oils no problem..

And these days cats are cheap!

In my case, I run penrite in both my Alfa 156 GTA and 156 JTS as they both have cam wear issues.. I've found the oil to be outstanding.

 

[ezarc]

Seeking a little advice from someone with better knowledge of oils than myself.

Thinking of using either the 10 Tenths or Penrite Everyday full synthetic in 10w40.

Typically the manual states that 5w30 should he used but it also says that 5w30 shouldn't be used when the engine sustains high speed for a long period of time and to use 10w40 for dusty conditions (its constantly dusty where I live but I don't know how it can get into the oil?).

2002 WRX
80,000km on new engine (290,000km on the body)
3" turbo back and uppipe
EcuTek ECU and dyno tuned

The driving I do in it varies from 5km short trips to 25km trips a few times a week. Every 2nd month or so I do a 1,000km round trip interstate to visit family.

I always start it and let it idle until its up to operating temp but it occasionally gets driven pretty hard when she's warmed up.

There is only about a $13 cost difference.

Would the 10 Tenths be better suited or would the Penrite Everyday protect my engine just as well?