I have read several post regarding GM DI engines. Seems they are tough on motor oil. With a 3k OCI would YB or GTX work ok for this engine? My last oil change I used Valvoline Synpower. Im thinking of going back to dino and shortening the OCI because of what I have read about how these engines beat up motor oil, not to mention the dilution issues.
Pennzoil YB for a DI engine
- Thread starter RamAir5
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PYB is on the top of many people's list here of dino oils.
It's definitely a strong/great oil. You could easily go a lot further than 3k on PYB if you wanted to.
It's definitely a strong/great oil. You could easily go a lot further than 3k on PYB if you wanted to.
GM dealers up where I live offer PYB with thier regular oil change deal. Its a good oil. Any of the top dino oils are good, chevron, valvoline, pennz, etc.
Originally Posted By: RamAir5
I have read several post regarding GM DI engines. Seems they are tough on motor oil. With a 3k OCI would YB or GTX work ok for this engine? My last oil change I used Valvoline Synpower. Im thinking of going back to dino and shortening the OCI because of what I have read about how these engines beat up motor oil, not to mention the dilution issues.
What is the volatility, flashpoint, and shear stability of PYB? How do these values compare to the highest end synthetics?
For the german DI engines anyway the medium end synthetics are getting beat up badly in the 2.0FIS DI engine. Look at the flashpoints and shear below. I shudder to think what a dino would do. Some of these oils exceed the typical manufacturer recommended condemnation point of 15% loss of viscosity (kv100) in about 1000 miles! In those engines I would only run the highest end ester synthetics. Different engine of course but some of the root causes of oil degradation are shared.
Type of oil GC GC Synt5/40 M1 0W40
Miles on oil 3000 3000 5049 6086
Miles on unit 30,000 40000 35020 18363
SUS visc. 57.9 59.5 56.4 60.9
100c vis. 9.61 10.08 10.3 10.47
Flashpoint 355 355 305 335
% shear 21.2 17.4 24.8 25.2
I have read several post regarding GM DI engines. Seems they are tough on motor oil. With a 3k OCI would YB or GTX work ok for this engine? My last oil change I used Valvoline Synpower. Im thinking of going back to dino and shortening the OCI because of what I have read about how these engines beat up motor oil, not to mention the dilution issues.
What is the volatility, flashpoint, and shear stability of PYB? How do these values compare to the highest end synthetics?
For the german DI engines anyway the medium end synthetics are getting beat up badly in the 2.0FIS DI engine. Look at the flashpoints and shear below. I shudder to think what a dino would do. Some of these oils exceed the typical manufacturer recommended condemnation point of 15% loss of viscosity (kv100) in about 1000 miles! In those engines I would only run the highest end ester synthetics. Different engine of course but some of the root causes of oil degradation are shared.
Type of oil GC GC Synt5/40 M1 0W40
Miles on oil 3000 3000 5049 6086
Miles on unit 30,000 40000 35020 18363
SUS visc. 57.9 59.5 56.4 60.9
100c vis. 9.61 10.08 10.3 10.47
Flashpoint 355 355 305 335
% shear 21.2 17.4 24.8 25.2
Jeez,what did we do in the past year`s before Synthetic`s became so popular??
What does the owner's manual specify for oil? Is there an OLM ?
Originally Posted By: RamAir5
I appreciate the responses. I'm really torn between paying the money for synthetic or going with dino.
Well, if you believe the posts about how DI engines are hard on oil (from your 1st post)than why would you NOT consider the best oil you can get? This being synthetics?
Also, being an owner of a CTS with the DI3.6 my UOA's have not indicated AT ALL that this engine is any harder on the oil than non-DI engines. Also, Mobil 1 is factory fill for my DI engine but not some others. Marketing or need? I'm not sure, but I do run oil that meets the GM4817 spec - such as M1.
I appreciate the responses. I'm really torn between paying the money for synthetic or going with dino.
Well, if you believe the posts about how DI engines are hard on oil (from your 1st post)than why would you NOT consider the best oil you can get? This being synthetics?
Also, being an owner of a CTS with the DI3.6 my UOA's have not indicated AT ALL that this engine is any harder on the oil than non-DI engines. Also, Mobil 1 is factory fill for my DI engine but not some others. Marketing or need? I'm not sure, but I do run oil that meets the GM4817 spec - such as M1.
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Oh - but stating that you want to run a 3k mile OCI, than the YB or GTX would do fine in my opinion. I'd give the nudge to YB over GTX - but just a little. But, if it were me, I would seriously consider running a synthetic and extending the OCI to recoup the cost. Mobil 1 or PP would be fine choices.
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
It is especially important that you follow the manufacturers recommendations when it comes to oil in Direct Injection engines Only the specified oils should be used, if they are not you may either damage the engine due to deposits and or void the car warranty.
Escpecially if the Germans instruct you about specifics..make sure you adhere to them, if you don't you will likely have problems with this engine!
Escpecially if the Germans instruct you about specifics..make sure you adhere to them, if you don't you will likely have problems with this engine!
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
GM recommends going by their OLM so 1500 miles is not true in this case.
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
GM recommends going by their OLM so 1500 miles is not true in this case.
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
It is especially important that you follow the manufacturers recommendations when it comes to oil in Direct Injection engines Only the specified oils should be used, if they are not you may either damage the engine...
Escpecially if the Germans instruct you about specifics..make sure you adhere to them, if you don't you will likely have problems with this engine!
The data shows that this is absolutely not the case! The VW/Audi 502 standard is a very low standard. 502 oils are not making it to 5000 miles in the 2.0FSI (VW recomends 10k OCI). The ester-based oils that have not been tested to 502 standards are fairing far better than the 502 oils. This also goes for some of the PAO based oils that have not been tested to 502.
Many of the 502 oils have showed very high shear rates, loss of flashpoint, high iron on UOAs as shown above.
It is especially important that you follow the manufacturers recommendations when it comes to oil in Direct Injection engines Only the specified oils should be used, if they are not you may either damage the engine...
Escpecially if the Germans instruct you about specifics..make sure you adhere to them, if you don't you will likely have problems with this engine!
The data shows that this is absolutely not the case! The VW/Audi 502 standard is a very low standard. 502 oils are not making it to 5000 miles in the 2.0FSI (VW recomends 10k OCI). The ester-based oils that have not been tested to 502 standards are fairing far better than the 502 oils. This also goes for some of the PAO based oils that have not been tested to 502.
Many of the 502 oils have showed very high shear rates, loss of flashpoint, high iron on UOAs as shown above.
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
You can't make a blanket statement like this. I drive a lexus IS-F (416hp 5.0L V8) it has a DI engine, and 5w-30 dino is what is recommended at 5000m OCI. I'm using PYB in it right now and it hasn't used a drop at 4500 miles. It should also be mentioned that my engine has a 10qt sump, oil cooler, and oil scavange pump. I don't think a company like Lexus would be recommending dino oil in their high performance vehicle if they didn't think it was acceptable.
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
You can't make a blanket statement like this. I drive a lexus IS-F (416hp 5.0L V8) it has a DI engine, and 5w-30 dino is what is recommended at 5000m OCI. I'm using PYB in it right now and it hasn't used a drop at 4500 miles. It should also be mentioned that my engine has a 10qt sump, oil cooler, and oil scavange pump. I don't think a company like Lexus would be recommending dino oil in their high performance vehicle if they didn't think it was acceptable.
Riot - Doesn't your Lexus use TWO injectors in it's DI system? One in the head, and one upstream to keep the valves clean? This is way different than a single injector DI engine.
Originally Posted By: RiotGrip
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
You can't make a blanket statement like this. I drive a lexus IS-F (416hp 5.0L V8) it has a DI engine, and 5w-30 dino is what is recommended at 5000m OCI. I'm using PYB in it right now and it hasn't used a drop at 4500 miles. It should also be mentioned that my engine has a 10qt sump, oil cooler, and oil scavange pump. I don't think a company like Lexus would be recommending dino oil in their high performance vehicle if they didn't think it was acceptable.
10qts in a 5 liter engine?! Whoa! I'm impressed! I'd be running dino too unless synthetic was required!
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
You will not be fine for 3K in a DI app. Going beyond 1500 miles in a DI on non syn is pressing one's luck. If you want the cheaper easy way out Id suggest PP at 4K OCIs and induction services every 7500 to 10K miles. DI issues are more than just oil thinning so oil is only half (at the most) the issue. A syn's more viable contribution will be less vaporing to the intake. Or you could go with mineral 20w50.
You can't make a blanket statement like this. I drive a lexus IS-F (416hp 5.0L V8) it has a DI engine, and 5w-30 dino is what is recommended at 5000m OCI. I'm using PYB in it right now and it hasn't used a drop at 4500 miles. It should also be mentioned that my engine has a 10qt sump, oil cooler, and oil scavange pump. I don't think a company like Lexus would be recommending dino oil in their high performance vehicle if they didn't think it was acceptable.
10qts in a 5 liter engine?! Whoa! I'm impressed! I'd be running dino too unless synthetic was required!
Its an educated observation. Do some searches. Low visc dino will not and has not held up under the heavy fuel loading and it will deposit much more on the valves from burn off. For a higher end power plant such as yours one would assume you have the education and intellect to question such errant manufacturer recommendations.
As we know from data on this site and others the OEMs haven’t yet come to terms with DI, so the OLM is useless and is likely set up to operate on more conventional parameters.
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