Passenger airliner hijacked out of Sea-Tac.

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Hounds
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
How could a guy with zero experience waltz into the cockpit of a complex high performance turboprop airliner, start both up (this would have been the east part, since I'd bet that there are a couple of buttons labeled "start"), taxi out and then successfully take off, climb and then level out, much less fly some pretty wild aerobatics and then bring the flight to a conclusion at the place of his choice?

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall: Practice, practice, practice.
https://www.justflight.com/product/dash-8-q400-pilot-edition-fsx-download


I bet the FBI will be looking at his computer to see if this software (or similar) is on there. I'm betting this is how he knew enough to fly the plane. The other part of the puzzle was him being able to move the plane out of the hanger and turn it 180 on the tarmac, but that was part of his job at the airport already.


Anyone who's actually soloed even a simple piston single knows that while a desktop application can be very useful as a cockpit procedures training aid it shows you nothing at all about actually flying an airplane and this thing is a long way from a C172 in weight, complexity, performance and speeds for things like takeoff and climb.
Unless the FBI finds a full motion sim in the guy's basement, I don't think that his apparent skill in operating this aircraft can be explained without his having at least some experience in operating complex twin engine aircraft. That it was a turbine would have simplified things in that I'm pretty sure it would have had autostart and FADEC, so engine startup and management wouldn't have been an issue. Still, the guy operated the aircraft under control for about an hour and flew through some extreme maneuvers without failing the wings or the empennage, further indication of learned piloting skills.
The aircraft was apparently in a hangar (a hanger is what you have you shirts on) and he would have moved it out onto the ramp (not "tarmac") using a tug, easy enough had he done it before, although usually you'd have at least one wing walker to watch that the aircraft doesn't get run into anything, as you'd see during any pushback from a gate.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that no desktop application could have brought this guy to the apparent level of proficiency he demonstrated in operating this big, fast turboprop twin. I actually can fly and have flown light singles all by myself for a number of rental hours and I'd not be at all confident of my ability to operate the aircraft in question even after many hours spent with a desktop application showing me where everything was located and how it worked. Bear in mind that this aircraft was also intended to be flown by a crew of two with the workload spread between the two fully qualified pilots up front, both of whom would be ATPs these days.
This whole event remains a mystery.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that no desktop application could have brought this guy to the apparent level of proficiency he demonstrated in operating this big, fast turboprop twin.


Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency. Maybe it does work the other way though.

This guy seems to have thrown up and became dizzy. That happens to people with no experience.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that no desktop application could have brought this guy to the apparent level of proficiency he demonstrated in operating this big, fast turboprop twin.


Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency. Maybe it does work the other way though.

This guy seems to have thrown up and became dizzy. That happens to people with no experience.


You have a whole lot more PIC time than I ever will and you have the skills and quals to have built your C177.
You have also had plenty of exposure to high performance aircraft in the course of you vocation.
Do you think that you could just step into one of these aircraft and fly it?
I know I couldn't.
For all of the guy's inexperience, he did operate this big, fast, heavy aircraft under control for quite a long time.
I find it hard to believe that he had no experience as a pilot.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency. Maybe it does work the other way though.

I wonder if it's platform specific, as it were. The procedure for taking off and landing in a Cessna 150 in real flight training matched and translated very well to a Microsoft fight simulator back in the day. How closely other aircraft match, particularly complex ones, could be another matter altogether.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Unless the FBI finds a full motion sim in the guy's basement, I don't think that his apparent skill in operating this aircraft can be explained without his having at least some experience in operating complex twin engine aircraft. That it was a turbine would have simplified things in that I'm pretty sure it would have had autostart and FADEC, so engine startup and management wouldn't have been an issue. Still, the guy operated the aircraft under control for about an hour and flew through some extreme maneuvers without failing the wings or the empennage, further indication of learned piloting skills.


Well, there has been zero evidence that this guy ever had a pilot's license, or has ever flown a real airplane of any kind. If that's true, then he must have learned the controls from a flight simulator and been a natural pilot.

When he was flying around and talking to the tower they even asked him about his experience, and he told them only experience was just on his computer with a flight simulator/game.

I live close to where this happened, so I see updates on this story every day on the news on 4 different local stations.

They said witnesses at the airport saw the plane's wheels smoking on take-off, which sounds like the parking brakes were maybe still partially on, and he just over powered them with throttle.

 

[Exhaustgases]

They say he was not a pilot, at first they said he was a mechanic, then now they say he was just a line worker??
Darn good pilot for not being a pilot, just like that bare foot bandit kid years ago.
Its just a wow thing thinking he knew how to start the turbines, and how to work the throttles and variable pitch propellers etc. and even got the radio working. So either those computer simulators are really detailed or he got a manual and knew how to use the air chart. Also would have to know how to not stall it out especially in the maneuvers he was doing. I'd like to know things like was his wife divorcing him? It sounds like he was married and had kids too. Kinda sad he was a pretty smart person to accomplish what he did. Horrible loss of his life and the plane as well. The big problem with all this is there are certain people they let off the hook for breaking laws and doing certain things, and this guy they would throw away the key. So he knew he had no chance for any kind of life if he landed it. That is where the main problem lies.

 

[Vikas]

Imagine the coverage if the name of this guy had been "Ismail Muhamad" or had brown/black skin. 100% sure we will NOT be talking about mental health but rather which country to turn in to parking lot instead. His divorced wife and his parents would have been already hauled in for "questioning".

EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Don't turn this discussion into one of those, as it's clearly not about that.

 

[Garak]

Believe it or not, there is a fair bit of coverage. Local news providers here have been covering it a fair bit, relatively speaking.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Don't turn this discussion into one of those, as it's clearly not about that.

Fair enough but I can't be the only one who sees it that way.

Yes, he went out in style but the narrative would be completely different; be it in the media or here or on BITOG.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency. Maybe it does work the other way though.

I wonder if it's platform specific, as it were. The procedure for taking off and landing in a Cessna 150 in real flight training matched and translated very well to a Microsoft fight simulator back in the day. How closely other aircraft match, particularly complex ones, could be another matter altogether.


Would MSFS have shown one how to attempt a loop, fail, end up inverted and then roll the aircraft back to its proper orientation?
That's what this young man did with this aircraft, which would bite a whole lot harder than any strut braced Cessna single if handled badly.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency. Maybe it does work the other way though.

I wonder if it's platform specific, as it were. The procedure for taking off and landing in a Cessna 150 in real flight training matched and translated very well to a Microsoft fight simulator back in the day. How closely other aircraft match, particularly complex ones, could be another matter altogether.

Would MSFS have shown one how to attempt a loop, fail, end up inverted and then roll the aircraft back to its proper orientation?
That's what this young man did with this aircraft, which would bite a whole lot harder than any strut braced Cessna single if handled badly.


If a flight simulator is a good simulation of how the aircraft handles, then all you have to do is spend hours flying around and seeing how far you can push the controls to see how it reacts, and how it is to recover from maneuvers - especially true if he actually had the Q-400 simulator software linked to earlier. That's part of a pilots training in a real simulator.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So they still really don't know if he actually suicided the plane into the ground, or if he lost control doing another stunt in the air and crashed. I'm wondering if one of the F-15 pilots actually witnessed the crash ... or someone along the shoreline of the water across from the island. He was circling that island for a long time, and the local news did show interviews with a few people that live across from the island, but never asked them if they witnessed the crash and what it was like ... ie, did he just auger it in, or was he trying to perform another stunt and lost it.

 

[ms21043]

The airplane was low on fuel when he took off. If he didn't know how handle an engine shutting down due to fuel exhaustion, game over.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Would MSFS have shown one how to attempt a loop, fail, end up inverted and then roll the aircraft back to its proper orientation?

It certainly could, yes, particularly if people online had written up some scenarios. I know the 150 modelling was very good, but really would have no idea how close a 747 would be.

Over the years, there were various "missions" written in simulators for recovering from situations, or being in bad weather, or what have you, to spice things up.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that no desktop application could have brought this guy to the apparent level of proficiency he demonstrated in operating this big, fast turboprop twin.


Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency.


Same here.

 

[SHOZ]

Richard B. Russell is not his real name. Can these planes be flow remotely?


Submarines. The last of the Permit / Scorpion Class submarines was SSN 687 USS Richard B Russell
It was unique in that it had a towed array stored in a bustle behind the sail. It was known as the Russell Bustle.
Later LA Class boats had hull accommodations for the array without the bustle.
The most important thing you should know, was it was a Hunter / Killer or Fast Attack Boat - these track / stalk kill enemy submarines.
It was the last of its class.
Remember the name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Russell_(SSN-687) the ship was scrapped at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard Bremerton WA (stricken from record, or killed from the Naval Registry)

Ship's Motto : "THEY SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST"



Missile Launch.
June 10th 2018 Skunk Bay Weather captured an image of what many believe to be a missile boosting not far from Whidbey Island WA.
My opinion, its a missile or a [censored] good fake of one. There are CGIs so realistic, I cannot tell the real thing from a fake.

If it were a missile launch in that region, I would suggest the likelihood of an Ohio Class (Trident) Submarine.
There's a base there i the Puget Sound at Bangor WA, where Ohio Class submarines are based.



Aircraft Crash.
Not too far away, a Q400 aircraft was *stolen* by (no kidding) Mr Richard B. Russell, flown about, performed aerobatics not typical of amateurs and crashed into an Island.


What you should get out of all this?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
What you should get out of all this?


Probably a tin foil hat?

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Conversely, I'm a pilot and can't fly desktop sims with any proficiency. Maybe it does work the other way though.

I wonder if it's platform specific, as it were. The procedure for taking off and landing in a Cessna 150 in real flight training matched and translated very well to a Microsoft fight simulator back in the day. How closely other aircraft match, particularly complex ones, could be another matter altogether.

Would MSFS have shown one how to attempt a loop, fail, end up inverted and then roll the aircraft back to its proper orientation?
That's what this young man did with this aircraft, which would bite a whole lot harder than any strut braced Cessna single if handled badly.


If a flight simulator is a good simulation of how the aircraft handles, then all you have to do is spend hours flying around and seeing how far you can push the controls to see how it reacts, and how it is to recover from maneuvers - especially true if he actually had the Q-400 simulator software linked to earlier. That's part of a pilots training in a real simulator.


I had already mentioned full motion sims above and they are indeed used in both pilot training and check rides for transport category aircraft and many bizjet models as well. Training was once done in actual aircraft, which proved not just costly but also dangerous, so full motion sims have largely replaced training flights in actual transport category aircraft. All of the emergency stuff can be practiced without risk to aircraft and risking only a crew's pride. A line pilot invited for a sim ride will be joined by another and they'll be expected to execute the memory items for every failure that the sim ride will be loaded with and to follow the appropriate checklist items in solving the problem. From what I understand, these rides are very intense and quite realistic, something you can't get with something running on a mere desktop, even if you have a fake yoke and a fake pair of rudder pedals.
The primary difference between a full motion sim and a desktop application is that a full motion sim gives both motion and tactile feedback through the controls. Without these two elements, I find it hard to think that one could learn to successfully operate a transport category aircraft, or even any other smaller one.
Still, it appears that this young man might have done so on his one way journey in a stolen airliner.
If this really was the case, then this fellow was wasted as a ramper and should have been flying, maybe for some clandestine operator.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I had already mentioned full motion sims above and they are indeed used in both pilot training and check rides for transport category aircraft and many bizjet models as well. Training was once done in actual aircraft, which proved not just costly but also dangerous, so full motion sims have largely replaced training flights in actual transport category aircraft. All of the emergency stuff can be practiced without risk to aircraft and risking only a crew's pride.

It's interesting to note that some iterations of one of the Linux flight simulators, X-Plane, has FAA certification of some sort for training purposes.