Hey guys,
I need some guidance on this one.
A friend is out of the country and left her car with another friend. While being driven, the car threw a P2135 code and went into limp mode.
Since I am not familiar with this code, I bought a subscription to alldatadiy and this is what I found from the Honda Fit's Factory Service Manual (FSM):
Quote:
DTC Troubleshooting: P2135
DTC P2135: TP Sensor A/B Incorrect Voltage Correlation
CAUTION
Do not insert your fingers into the installed throttle body when you turn the ignition switch to ON (II) or while the ignition switch is in ON (II). If you do, you will seriously injure your fingers if the throttle valve is activated.
NOTE: Before you troubleshoot, record all freeze data and any on-board snapshot, and review the general troubleshooting information. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview
1. Turn the ignition switch to ON (II).
2. Clear the DTC with the HDS.
3. Do the ETCS TEST in the INSPECTION MENU with the HDS.
4. Check for Pending or Confirmed DTCs with the HDS.
Is DTC P2135 indicated?
YES - Go to step 5.
NO - Intermittent failure, the system is OK at this time. Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the throttle body and the ECM/PCM.
5. Turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0).
6. Disconnect the intake air duct from the throttle body.
7. Turn the ignition switch to ON (II).
8. Clear the DTC with the HDS.
9. Visually check the throttle valve operation.
Does the valve temporarily move to its fully closed position?
YES - Go to step 16.
NO - Go to step 10.
10. Turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0).
11. Jump the SCS line with the HDS.
12. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector C (44P).
13. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminals C20 and C21.
Is there continuity?
YES - Go to step 14.
NO - Go to step 23.
14. Disconnect the throttle body 6P connector.
15. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminals C20 and C21.
Is there continuity?
YES - Repair short in the wires between the ECM/PCM connector terminals C20 (TPSA line) and C21 (TPSB line), then go to step 18.
NO - Go to step 16.
16. Turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0).
17. Replace the throttle body. See: Powertrain Management\Fuel Delivery and Air Induction\Throttle Body\Service and Repair\Removal and Replacement
18. Reconnect all connectors.
19. Turn the ignition switch to ON (II).
20. Reset the ECM/PCM with the HDS.
21. Do the ECM/PCM idle learn procedure. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Engine Control Module\Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\ECM/PCM Idle Learn Procedure
22. Check for Pending or Confirmed DTCs with the HDS.
Is DTC P2135 indicated?
YES - Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the throttle body and the ECM/PCM, then go to step 1.
NO - Troubleshooting is complete. If any other Pending or Confirmed DTCs are indicated, go to the indicated DTC's troubleshooting.
23. Reconnect all connectors.
24. Update the ECM/PCM if it does not have the latest software, See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Engine Control Module\Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\ECM/PCM Update or substitute a known-good ECM/PCM. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview
25. Check for Pending or Confirmed DTCs with the HDS.
Is DTC P2135 indicated?
YES - Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the throttle body and the ECM/PCM. If the ECM/PCM was updated, substitute a known-good ECM/PCM, See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview then recheck. If the ECM/PCM was substituted, go to step 1.
NO - If the ECM/PCM was updated, troubleshooting is complete. If the ECM/PCM was substituted, replace the original ECM/PCM. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Engine Control Module\Service and Repair If any other Pending or Confirmed DTCs are indicated, go to the indicated DTC's troubleshooting.
Advanced Troubleshooting Info:
Quote:
General Description
The electronic throttle control system controls the throttle valve opening. The system includes the throttle actuator, the throttle valve, throttle position (TP) sensors A and B, the electronic throttle control system (ETCS) control relay, the accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor, and the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM). When the accelerator pedal is pressed, the APP sensor detects the accelerator opening value. The accelerator pedal opening value is converted to a signal in the APP sensor and transmitted to the ECM/PCM to compute the target position. The ECM/PCM then operates the throttle actuator to move the throttle valve to the target position. The actual throttle valve position is determined by TP sensor A (installed in the throttle body). The ECM/PCM compares the voltages and the throttle valve positions of TP sensor A and TP sensor B. If the difference of the voltages or the throttle valve positions is a certain value for a set time, the ECM/ PCM detects a malfunction in the relationship between TP sensor A and TP sensor B, and stores a DTC.
Malfunction Threshold
One of these conditions must be met for at least 200 milliseconds:
The difference between the TP sensor A voltage and the TP sensor B voltage is 200 mV (5 °) or less.
The difference between the throttle valve positions that TP sensor A and TP sensor B determined exceeds the value shown in this table.
Diagnosis Details
Conditions for setting the DTC
When a malfunction is detected, the MIL comes on and a Pending DTC, a Confirmed DTC, and the freeze data are stored in the ECM/PCM memory.
Conditions for clearing the DTC
The MIL is cleared if the malfunction does not return in three consecutive trips in which the diagnostic runs. The MIL, the Pending DTC, the Confirmed DTC, and the freeze data can be cleared with the scan tool Clear command or by disconnecting the battery.
So far, I have done a quick visual check of the connections and cleared the code. Once the code was cleared, I drove the car for about 5 miles and there were no problems at all . However, since I do not have the factory scan tool (nor a high-end aftermarket one), I was unable to initiate the Engine Throttle Control System (ETCS) test to confirm proper functionality of the throttle body system.
The car is getting driven back to Southern CA in a few weeks, so I need to fix this for good. Having the car go into limp mode during the trip would be a very bad scenario.
From what I gather, aside from taking the car to the dealer to initiate the ETCS test, all I can do at this point is to keep driving the car and hope that enough diagnostic cycles are ran - so that we can confirm if the problem truly exists.
Just in case - I purchased a used "known-good" throttle body from a junkyard for $75. A new one is $600 so that idea went away really quickly.
Any ideas? Part of me says to install the used throttle body and drive the car as much as possible for the next few weeks to confirm proper operation.
What do you guys think? Take it to the dealer? Keep in mind that the car does have 87k, so it is out of the Fed and CA Emissions Warranty (expired at 70k).
Thanks
I need some guidance on this one.
A friend is out of the country and left her car with another friend. While being driven, the car threw a P2135 code and went into limp mode.
Since I am not familiar with this code, I bought a subscription to alldatadiy and this is what I found from the Honda Fit's Factory Service Manual (FSM):
Quote:
DTC Troubleshooting: P2135
DTC P2135: TP Sensor A/B Incorrect Voltage Correlation
CAUTION
Do not insert your fingers into the installed throttle body when you turn the ignition switch to ON (II) or while the ignition switch is in ON (II). If you do, you will seriously injure your fingers if the throttle valve is activated.
NOTE: Before you troubleshoot, record all freeze data and any on-board snapshot, and review the general troubleshooting information. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview
1. Turn the ignition switch to ON (II).
2. Clear the DTC with the HDS.
3. Do the ETCS TEST in the INSPECTION MENU with the HDS.
4. Check for Pending or Confirmed DTCs with the HDS.
Is DTC P2135 indicated?
YES - Go to step 5.
NO - Intermittent failure, the system is OK at this time. Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the throttle body and the ECM/PCM.
5. Turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0).
6. Disconnect the intake air duct from the throttle body.
7. Turn the ignition switch to ON (II).
8. Clear the DTC with the HDS.
9. Visually check the throttle valve operation.
Does the valve temporarily move to its fully closed position?
YES - Go to step 16.
NO - Go to step 10.
10. Turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0).
11. Jump the SCS line with the HDS.
12. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector C (44P).
13. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminals C20 and C21.
Is there continuity?
YES - Go to step 14.
NO - Go to step 23.
14. Disconnect the throttle body 6P connector.
15. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminals C20 and C21.
Is there continuity?
YES - Repair short in the wires between the ECM/PCM connector terminals C20 (TPSA line) and C21 (TPSB line), then go to step 18.
NO - Go to step 16.
16. Turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0).
17. Replace the throttle body. See: Powertrain Management\Fuel Delivery and Air Induction\Throttle Body\Service and Repair\Removal and Replacement
18. Reconnect all connectors.
19. Turn the ignition switch to ON (II).
20. Reset the ECM/PCM with the HDS.
21. Do the ECM/PCM idle learn procedure. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Engine Control Module\Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\ECM/PCM Idle Learn Procedure
22. Check for Pending or Confirmed DTCs with the HDS.
Is DTC P2135 indicated?
YES - Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the throttle body and the ECM/PCM, then go to step 1.
NO - Troubleshooting is complete. If any other Pending or Confirmed DTCs are indicated, go to the indicated DTC's troubleshooting.
23. Reconnect all connectors.
24. Update the ECM/PCM if it does not have the latest software, See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Engine Control Module\Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\ECM/PCM Update or substitute a known-good ECM/PCM. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview
25. Check for Pending or Confirmed DTCs with the HDS.
Is DTC P2135 indicated?
YES - Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the throttle body and the ECM/PCM. If the ECM/PCM was updated, substitute a known-good ECM/PCM, See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview then recheck. If the ECM/PCM was substituted, go to step 1.
NO - If the ECM/PCM was updated, troubleshooting is complete. If the ECM/PCM was substituted, replace the original ECM/PCM. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Engine Control Module\Service and Repair If any other Pending or Confirmed DTCs are indicated, go to the indicated DTC's troubleshooting.
Advanced Troubleshooting Info:
Quote:
General Description
The electronic throttle control system controls the throttle valve opening. The system includes the throttle actuator, the throttle valve, throttle position (TP) sensors A and B, the electronic throttle control system (ETCS) control relay, the accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor, and the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM). When the accelerator pedal is pressed, the APP sensor detects the accelerator opening value. The accelerator pedal opening value is converted to a signal in the APP sensor and transmitted to the ECM/PCM to compute the target position. The ECM/PCM then operates the throttle actuator to move the throttle valve to the target position. The actual throttle valve position is determined by TP sensor A (installed in the throttle body). The ECM/PCM compares the voltages and the throttle valve positions of TP sensor A and TP sensor B. If the difference of the voltages or the throttle valve positions is a certain value for a set time, the ECM/ PCM detects a malfunction in the relationship between TP sensor A and TP sensor B, and stores a DTC.
Malfunction Threshold
One of these conditions must be met for at least 200 milliseconds:
The difference between the TP sensor A voltage and the TP sensor B voltage is 200 mV (5 °) or less.
The difference between the throttle valve positions that TP sensor A and TP sensor B determined exceeds the value shown in this table.
Diagnosis Details
Conditions for setting the DTC
When a malfunction is detected, the MIL comes on and a Pending DTC, a Confirmed DTC, and the freeze data are stored in the ECM/PCM memory.
Conditions for clearing the DTC
The MIL is cleared if the malfunction does not return in three consecutive trips in which the diagnostic runs. The MIL, the Pending DTC, the Confirmed DTC, and the freeze data can be cleared with the scan tool Clear command or by disconnecting the battery.
So far, I have done a quick visual check of the connections and cleared the code. Once the code was cleared, I drove the car for about 5 miles and there were no problems at all . However, since I do not have the factory scan tool (nor a high-end aftermarket one), I was unable to initiate the Engine Throttle Control System (ETCS) test to confirm proper functionality of the throttle body system.
The car is getting driven back to Southern CA in a few weeks, so I need to fix this for good. Having the car go into limp mode during the trip would be a very bad scenario.
From what I gather, aside from taking the car to the dealer to initiate the ETCS test, all I can do at this point is to keep driving the car and hope that enough diagnostic cycles are ran - so that we can confirm if the problem truly exists.
Just in case - I purchased a used "known-good" throttle body from a junkyard for $75. A new one is $600 so that idea went away really quickly.
Any ideas? Part of me says to install the used throttle body and drive the car as much as possible for the next few weeks to confirm proper operation.
What do you guys think? Take it to the dealer? Keep in mind that the car does have 87k, so it is out of the Fed and CA Emissions Warranty (expired at 70k).
Thanks
