Owners try to unload Guzzlers

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"You complain that you're being badgered..."

I don't really mind being badgered, in fact I hope it's a Trojan horse for getting people to look at fuel economy instead of vehicle size.

The Sprinter seems to be more expensive that I thought as the passenger version costs more. Dodge rates the mileage at something like 19 to 20 mpg, but it wasn't clear if that was combined or city. In any case it doesn't have the utility that I like in the truck.

I don't know what a Highlander is. Can you haul firewood in it, or yard debris to the recycling center, and still seat people ? Is it affordable and will last a long time ?
 
"As someone who sees worst driving conditions here than you'll ever see in WA (and bigger "hills") I can tell you the Subaru can do better in ice and snow (as long as its less than 3 foot drifts) than ANY truck. I've operated both in many conditions and there is no question."

Well, my experience has been different. I've been on 'soft ice' close to freezing with studded tires on all wheels, idling while waiting for someone to get pulled out, and the truck started sliding towards the edge of the road. I chained up all wheels and made it home with no problems, and didn't see anything but large 4wd with chains on the way home. I've been on ice like that a few times.

The coworker with the Subaru that slid off of the road with chains on all wheels was really an issue of weight vs traction, as in situations like that there evidently just isn't enough weight to enable the chains to bite deeply enough for adequate traction. In that and other ice storms other people with cars that were chained also had problems, which is why sometimes they just shut down roads and interstates around here.

Our driveway is the steepest grade that we deal with, next is our street, and next are streets leading up the hill that we live on. I've watched 4wd Jeeps with severe snow tires on all wheels stall on the street in front of our house and start sliding backwards.

Snow is good traction, and 'hard ice' is certainly better than the 'soft ice' close to freezing.
 
Another coworker with a Subaru wagon use to tell people that his car didn't much better than my truck, and looking at some of the lower mpg results below I can see why. There will be a bigger range of results with the newer EPA estimates as they did included using the air, more acceleration, etc. than they had previously in order to get the overall mileage estimates to better match real world results.

http://ask.cars.com/2008/03/subaru-fuel-mil.html

bought a brand new 2006 subaru impreza wrx during xmas of 2005. that car is supposed to get 20/26 city/highway. i've driven 26,000 miles in about 2 years. the car really gets 15/20. i don't put the pedal to the metal. i accelerate slowly, and i rarely break 3,000 rpm. but the awd impreza just eats up gas like crazy.

I had a 2002 Subaru Outback and it got 19 to 20mpg in the city and 29mpg on the highway from the day I purchased it new.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2003/01/16/152905.html

The bottom line for the Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Wagon was $27,392. This resulted from a base price of $25,695, $1,000 for the sport shift automatic transmission, $172 for a cross bar kit and a destination charge of $525. Fuel economy is listed at 20 mpg city, 26 mpg highway. We averaged 22.5 for a combination of roads, so I was pleased with that.

http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2008-subaru-legacy-3/4505-10865_7-32418955.html

We found the 3-liter Legacy sprightly, offering good, but not overwhelming, acceleration. During our time with the car, we saw an average of 21.6 mpg, a fairly good number falling in the EPA-rated range of 17 mpg for city and 24 mpg for on highway.
 
Nice try.

First through third are turbos.

Last one is a 6 cyl 3.0l (bigger engine)

The 2.5l NA gets WELL above 18mpg in the city. Flog it and it may get 18. Drive like a responsible adult and it will get 23 plus on REGULAR gas around town.

25 MPG plus on the road.

And trust me, if my wife can get 26mpg driving it super short city use and twice a week 20miles to and from work, any one can. (she is not known to be easy on the gas pedal...)

As far as your hard ice vs soft ice.. don't know what to say. You cna not put chains on a Subaru for the last 10-15 years due to clearance issues and I've driven my subaru up hills on pure ice that you can not walk up with all season tires and never slipped once.

There were plenty of SUV, trucks and FWD/RWD cars stuck as I passed them.

Bill
 
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From Edmunds Subaru MPG thread.


2.5l Turbo
Quote:
TOTAL: 103.0 gallons for 2839 miles equals 27.56 mpg. Wouldn't be surprised to see it creep to 28+ by 20k miles.

MPG indicator is about 10-15 % low; it read 25.2 mpg for trip. At first I was pretty disappointed in "mileage" until I realized the trip MPG calculator was off.


Low mileage car, will get better (also shows why people need to do the hard math instead of depending on trip computers for their "data")

Quote:
05 LGT Wagon 5MT
30k miles

So far only did a highway trip 75-80mph, 28.x mpg


Quote:
My vehicle is EPA rated 19 MPG city/25 MPG highway. I tend to average 25-26.5 MPG with 90% rural/country/highway driving. The remaining 10% of mileage per tank is often stop-and-go traffic in suburban New Jersey and driving in evening rush hour traffic in Manhattan/NYC. If my driving excludes NJ/NYC rush hours and is completely rural driving, I can get 26-27 MPG. On long highway stretches of non-stop driving using cruise control, I can usually get 28-29 MPG, once even 30 MPG, as long as I don't exceed 65 MPH. All of these figures are mathematically calculated. I find the car's computer is usually overly optimistic by 0.8-1.5 MPG


Quote:
2004 Impreza Outback Sport 2.5L and 4 speed automatic.

27 MPG for overall average (since around 10 to 15 thousand miles).


Quote:
ust turned 15,000 miles in 5 months. Mostly highway driving. Gas mileage has been increasing as I add miles & the weather gets better (based in New England, near Providence, RI) Most recent trip 30.3 on the computer, 28.7 actual. Since I have had the vehicle, the average mpg for all driving has probably been around 26, although I will check all my figures & report back.



Here is a Turbo. See the MPG go down and have to use Premium gas.

Quote:
Northern NJ / NYC metro area
Gasoline used: 93 Octane, no-name brand

Winter avg - 21.5 MPG (A/C always off)
Summer avg - 23.0 MPG without A/C, 21.8 MPG with A/C
Worst ever - 19.8 (1st tank from the dealer when bought new)
Best ever - 24.8 (mostly highway with A/C on)
EPA rated at 18/23 city/hwy


Quote:
On a roll here, last 5 tanks' average:

28.2mpg (with Bob driving to Valley Forge)
26.6
27.7
24.9
27.6

73k miles and running nicely.



Another Turbo.
Quote:
90% Hwy
TP: 32 psi
Odo: 29k miles
Worst: 21.2 (still new, winter)
Best: 27.0 (no AC, rural hwy avging 60 mph)
Lifetime avg: 24.2 mpg


Quote:
5 speed with 36,000 miles:

Best: 31.0 (99% highway)

Typical (27.5 70% highway, 30% city).

Worst: (25 mpg--hot with AC on 50% of the time)


Quote:
I have the 08 basic 2.5 auto, just returned from a 1,000 mile trip and was pleasantly surprised to get 28.2 overall, with most of the driving at about 72 MPH. The tank that had a long stretch of 60 MPH driving saw a 30.5 average


Here you go! Finally found one really low...
grin2.gif


Quote:
My 2005 Subaru Outback XT wagon now has 15,600 miles as it fast approaches its second birthday. My gas mileage ranges from 25mpg on pure highway trips going 65-70 mph to a low of 12 mpg on short trips around town. The blended mpg of typical suburban driving is about 16 mpg. I drive very conservatively trying to max out my mileage with 93 octane gas recently well above $3 here on Long Island.


Trust me, If I found something that would have a normal engine with the form factor of a wagon I'd sell the Subaru.

(Looks like I've got a coolant leak as I can smell coolant when it comes home and the tank is going down slightly
smirk2.gif
)

But for a AWD car it is hard to find something that does as well as it does, gets as good of MPG and costs as less as it did.

But, stating that a NA Subaru will only get 18mpg is not actual.

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


(Looks like I've got a coolant leak as I can smell coolant when it comes home and the tank is going down slightly
smirk2.gif
)

But for a AWD car it is hard to find something that does as well as it does, gets as good of MPG and costs as less as it did.

But, stating that a NA Subaru will only get 18mpg is not actual.

Bill


Our Forester XT (Turbo 2.5L) has achieved as high as 27MPG on combined city/highway driving.

One note on the coolant problem, the 2.5L is known to have a head gasket issue. Subaru recommends "Subaru Coolant Conditioner" at each radiator drain/fill.

Our overflow tank goes down slightly (for a few days/weeks) after a drain/fill then stops...even after meticulous burping of the system.
 
I have seen a few 2.5L Forresters need head gaskets anywhere from 60-100K. That and the piston slap issue make the 2.5L a little bit of a gamble. They are great in snow though.
 
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
^^^Actually, the rest of the civilized world freeloads on the USA military by not having to pay much for their own.

Something we simply MUST fix (coming from BITOG's Marine Colonel Admin...).


I was going to let this one pass but .....
Don't you see the contradiction in that sentence???? Really, it is painfully obvious. Let me help you:

.... *CIVILIZED* ..... *MILITARY* ....

Civilized rational people of the world are supposed to settle their issues *WITHOUT* force (military). What is UN supposed to be for???? Sure, the world is not perfect, but then we shouldn't just revert to killing each other all day long.

So how do you know that the rest of the world even needs/wants US military???? Granted there are some bad people out there, but we seem not to make any progress with the current shoot 1st ask UN later strategy.

Anyway going off topic too much here, so let's keep such comments off this thread.
The U.N.is the most foul organization on earth at the present moment do not get me started on explaining why.
 
Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


(Looks like I've got a coolant leak as I can smell coolant when it comes home and the tank is going down slightly
smirk2.gif
)

But for a AWD car it is hard to find something that does as well as it does, gets as good of MPG and costs as less as it did.

But, stating that a NA Subaru will only get 18mpg is not actual.

Bill


Our Forester XT (Turbo 2.5L) has achieved as high as 27MPG on combined city/highway driving.

One note on the coolant problem, the 2.5L is known to have a head gasket issue. Subaru recommends "Subaru Coolant Conditioner" at each radiator drain/fill.

Our overflow tank goes down slightly (for a few days/weeks) after a drain/fill then stops...even after meticulous burping of the system.


Its the DOHC models that normally have problems.

The SOHC units so far have been ok. Its smelling like its the left (drivers) side external leak. I'll take it in, they will put in the dye and conditioner so we can see what happens. (All the UOAs show no coolant *in* the engine)

(I was aware for the bottle of magic
smirk2.gif
that Subaru wants to be put in) The car only has 15k on it since new.

Love the car and how the engine works, but wished it had a normal engine (along with window frames)

Filled up today @$3.94 a gallon and MPG for this tank was 27.4. That makes 28.1 MPG over the last 2k miles.

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: Mucho_MPG
I have seen a few 2.5L Forresters need head gaskets anywhere from 60-100K. That and the piston slap issue make the 2.5L a little bit of a gamble. They are great in snow though.


Its the older DOHC 2.5l that have problems. The newer 2.5l SOHC have been excellent so far.

Bill
 
We've basically "parked" our '98 3.8L AWD Grand Caravan, and are using the Suzuki SX4 2.0L iAWD exclusively.

We receive a 2-vehicle discount on our car insurance policy, and it would end up costing us more if we were to sell the minivan.
 
That Suzuki AWD you have, even with the 5-speed, gets [censored] mileage IMHO. 21 city/28 highway per fueleconomy.gov, for a roller skate sized car. That's crazy. The Suzuki is only 5 mpg difference city and highway than your 3.8L minivan.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mucho_MPG
That Suzuki AWD you have, even with the 5-speed, gets [censored] mileage IMHO. 21 city/28 highway per fueleconomy.gov, for a roller skate sized car. That's crazy. The Suzuki is only 5 mpg difference city and highway than your 3.8L minivan.

Almost all of our driving is around town, stop-n-go, very short trips. With our '07 auto transmission, which had a better MPG rating than the '07 manual-btw, the difference is 6 or 7 MPG more than the Caravan. Our average for 99.9% of "city driving" is 25 MPG.
 
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Gas at $4.00+ per gallon, means that all cars getting 25 mpg or worse are gas guzzlers. For example one that bought a 2002 Camry for fuel economy would perceive his car today as a guzzler, and as gas prices go up, more and more "economy cars" turn into gas guzzlers.
 
My change in habits so far has got me one extra day's commuting off the same tank of gas. Considering my commute is over 100 miles total, that's not bad! Of course, the depressing thing is when Prius (Priui?) pass me....and knowing they are still getting better mpg.... But that's okay, I know I could still beat 'em to 140 mph.
cool.gif
 
Im with bill. My lifetime fuel economy average over 21,000 miles is 26.2mpg. I just recently took a highway road trip to Yellowstone, WY in it from PA and averaged 30+mpg on each tank at 75-80mph (yes I speed).

Weight per sq inch is a problem on ice perhaps, but the bigger the vehicle the more friction it takes to move/turn and stop. Ive been on some severe ice/snow with my subie, passed many a 4WD, and never had an issue with my AWD "slipping off" the road. It's all in driver know-how, snow tires, and common sense. A big 4x4 light on the back dually diesel is not gonna be better in the ice when it comes to stopping or cornering...

Back to the topic --
Im trying now to help my gf get out of her forlorn looking Focus from 2001 and into a new Honda Fit (33/38mpg). I hope it does well :)
 
Does she do a lot of highway driving? If so, I've heard he Fit can be a bit buzzy. It might be wise to wait a few months and see what the new 09's do for that. Supposedly, Honda is going to offer a Fit hybrid at some point in this new model lifecycle.
 
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