Ooops, ... my bad !!
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I never thought the verticle stab would be that sturdy!
Wow--moved it like it was a toy. Can you imagine being on that smaller jet when that happened?
Originally Posted By: eljefino
This, kids, is why you leave your seat belt fastened while taxiing!
Yep...learned to taxi the super jumbo by driving Citroens in the streets of Paris...
I am a frequent flyer (700+ K miles on UAL alone)...you can always tell the noobs who unbuckle when you're clearing the runway...you wouldn't do that in a car at 50MPH...but it's OK
in a jet?
Where do they think they're going?
This, kids, is why you leave your seat belt fastened while taxiing!
Yep...learned to taxi the super jumbo by driving Citroens in the streets of Paris...
I am a frequent flyer (700+ K miles on UAL alone)...you can always tell the noobs who unbuckle when you're clearing the runway...you wouldn't do that in a car at 50MPH...but it's OK
Where do they think they're going?
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That video was on the news tonight. I can and can't at the same time believe that a CRJ was turned that quickly just at taxi speed. I am a nerd with the seat belts and airline safety and always wear the belt gate to gate. Now I'm glad I do.
Originally Posted By: expat
Would the ground crew be responsible?
Unlikely. From the looks of it, whether the ground controller should have stopped the taxi, or the crew of the Comair should have kept going to clear the taxiway, the crew of the Air France A-380 should have stopped. They had the ability to prevent this by being cautious.
One of the interesting things about flying a jumbo jet is just taxiing it. The A-380 includes multiple cameras in order to make that easier (the Boeing 747-400 with which I am familiar has none...but it's "only" 231 feet long and weighs "only" 875,000 lbs...).
Most airlines prohibit trying to clear obstacles, including other airplane parts, vertically. You have to clear horizontally....clearly, these guys did neither...
Would the ground crew be responsible?
Unlikely. From the looks of it, whether the ground controller should have stopped the taxi, or the crew of the Comair should have kept going to clear the taxiway, the crew of the Air France A-380 should have stopped. They had the ability to prevent this by being cautious.
One of the interesting things about flying a jumbo jet is just taxiing it. The A-380 includes multiple cameras in order to make that easier (the Boeing 747-400 with which I am familiar has none...but it's "only" 231 feet long and weighs "only" 875,000 lbs...).
Most airlines prohibit trying to clear obstacles, including other airplane parts, vertically. You have to clear horizontally....clearly, these guys did neither...
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
This, kids, is why you leave your seat belt fastened while taxiing!
I buckle up when I sit and unbuckle it to go to the rest room then keep it buckled to deplane.
This, kids, is why you leave your seat belt fastened while taxiing!
I buckle up when I sit and unbuckle it to go to the rest room then keep it buckled to deplane.
Sounds expensive.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Yep...learned to taxi the super jumbo by driving Citroens in the streets of Paris...
Oh, so now it's Citroën's fault.
Yep...learned to taxi the super jumbo by driving Citroens in the streets of Paris...
Oh, so now it's Citroën's fault.
Was joking, jeez.
Probably six weeks to repair the 'bus, no word on the CRJ.
The CRJ, a 65 seat aircraft that weighs 43K lbs empty, looks like a toy being shoved out of the way by the A380.
The Air France pilot (whichever one was taxiing the aircraft) may have been going a little fast for JFK at night.
FWIR, the CRJ crew had just taxied in and was waiting to be marshaled into a gate.
Obviously, nobody on the 'bus made it to Paris that night, and I would imagine those on the CRJ missed their connections as well.
No injuries except to somebody's pride.
Somebody is gonna have some 'splainin to do when they get back to France.
The CRJ, a 65 seat aircraft that weighs 43K lbs empty, looks like a toy being shoved out of the way by the A380.
The Air France pilot (whichever one was taxiing the aircraft) may have been going a little fast for JFK at night.
FWIR, the CRJ crew had just taxied in and was waiting to be marshaled into a gate.
Obviously, nobody on the 'bus made it to Paris that night, and I would imagine those on the CRJ missed their connections as well.
No injuries except to somebody's pride.
Somebody is gonna have some 'splainin to do when they get back to France.
Originally Posted By: expat
Would the ground crew be responsible?
Air France crew's fault 100%.... I based in JFK a month, and still go there about once or twice a month, and we park in the same area all the time (The horse shoe) is what we call it. Once we land, we call Ramp control/ OPS to get our clearance to enter the ramp at "M" taxiway, then relay it to ground control. There's 2 spot at Taxi way M. Comair is waiting there to get marshall into their gate. The Captain of AF should have seen that his wing was not going to clear. Comair was well clear of Taxi way A/B which Air France was on.
Would the ground crew be responsible?
Air France crew's fault 100%.... I based in JFK a month, and still go there about once or twice a month, and we park in the same area all the time (The horse shoe) is what we call it. Once we land, we call Ramp control/ OPS to get our clearance to enter the ramp at "M" taxiway, then relay it to ground control. There's 2 spot at Taxi way M. Comair is waiting there to get marshall into their gate. The Captain of AF should have seen that his wing was not going to clear. Comair was well clear of Taxi way A/B which Air France was on.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: expat
Would the ground crew be responsible?
or the crew of the Comair should have kept going to clear the taxiway,
Comair was already cleared. The can't moved from that spot until the ground crew is in place to marshall them in. There's 2 spot in that ramp which is where Comair was. They were where they are suppose to be since the ground crew was not in place.
Originally Posted By: expat
Would the ground crew be responsible?
or the crew of the Comair should have kept going to clear the taxiway,
Comair was already cleared. The can't moved from that spot until the ground crew is in place to marshall them in. There's 2 spot in that ramp which is where Comair was. They were where they are suppose to be since the ground crew was not in place.
I am going to disagree with Silver02ex on this one. My opinion is the Air France A380 is not at fault because: a) He was taxiing via the clearance that was issued by ATC. b
he was on the yellow centerline of the taxiway. c notice the flashing amber stop bar from the SMGCS low vis lighting. That flashing bar indicates a Taxi Holding Position for OUTBOUND taxi clearance during low vis to allow adequate clearance from the movement area. (the Comair flight was not clear of that zone). d Taxi speed of the A380 was not excessive. I have taxied at up to 25 knots on straight taxiways then brake to slow down to 10 kts. or so and then let the speed build back up. That prevents hot brakes.
Another factor to consider is the height of the cockpit above the ground. On the 747-400, the pilots eye height is 38 ft. above the ground. At that height, you cannot accurately judge taxi speed, and you cannot see the wingtips from the cockpit. The guidance I have been given from my company Flight Operations Manual is that if you are on the yellow centerline, you are assured adequate clearance from obstacles. (No consideration given for aircraft within your safety zone.)
If it looked really close, I would have stopped the A380. I really think the Comair flight was too close, but I also understand there was considerable congestion inside the horseshoe and that's why the Comair stopped where he did.
The Air France crew was probably running through Taxi checks and might have been task saturated at the time. It was also night time and it might be difficult to judge exact aircraft position (especially when you cannot see your own wingtip.)
Again, this is just my opinion with no disrespect intended to Silver02ex.
Fly safe,
757 Guy
MSP Based Delta Pilot
he was on the yellow centerline of the taxiway. c notice the flashing amber stop bar from the SMGCS low vis lighting. That flashing bar indicates a Taxi Holding Position for OUTBOUND taxi clearance during low vis to allow adequate clearance from the movement area. (the Comair flight was not clear of that zone). d Taxi speed of the A380 was not excessive. I have taxied at up to 25 knots on straight taxiways then brake to slow down to 10 kts. or so and then let the speed build back up. That prevents hot brakes. Another factor to consider is the height of the cockpit above the ground. On the 747-400, the pilots eye height is 38 ft. above the ground. At that height, you cannot accurately judge taxi speed, and you cannot see the wingtips from the cockpit. The guidance I have been given from my company Flight Operations Manual is that if you are on the yellow centerline, you are assured adequate clearance from obstacles. (No consideration given for aircraft within your safety zone.)
If it looked really close, I would have stopped the A380. I really think the Comair flight was too close, but I also understand there was considerable congestion inside the horseshoe and that's why the Comair stopped where he did.
The Air France crew was probably running through Taxi checks and might have been task saturated at the time. It was also night time and it might be difficult to judge exact aircraft position (especially when you cannot see your own wingtip.)
Again, this is just my opinion with no disrespect intended to Silver02ex.
Fly safe,
757 Guy
MSP Based Delta Pilot
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757 Guy, Lets use this for example. Next time you are taxing by one of our RJ's on Taxi way "K" by the B/C concourse in DTW. You see an RJ pulled up to the zipper road waiting to get parked. You got your clearance from ground to Taxi on K. As you taxi by you clip the RJ's tail. This is same as the JFK incident. Would that be the RJ's fault too because he was not clear? He also had a clearance "Taxi via Kilo to the gate" How many years have Comair/ASA and all the other Delta connection been stopped at that exact same Diamond in the "horse shoe" in JFK waiting for rampers and every single Emerites or AF A380, JAL 747 ect and tug going up and down Taxi way A never had an issue until now. Not only did Comair had Ramp AND Ground's clearance to be where they are, i'm sure they had their parking break set. I don't know how anyone can try to get out of an NTSB hearing trying to say it's the guy fault who was sitting with parking brake set and you clip part of his airplane. You are right that AF had his clearance to taxi on A, but Comair also had a clearance from both Ground and Ramp to be in that exact spot.
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