On this flight we are serving boiled passengers!

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I have been once in similar situation, stranded on ATR 72 in Atlanta due to tornado and that thing couldn’t maintain appropriate temperature inside. We set 3hrs.
Another time was at EWR on 767-400 with Continental en route to Milan (looking at you @Astro14 ) when we had to wait and pilots turned off one engine. It got hot, but not like ATR72 and especially NOT like this:

This seems like failure on so many levels.
Astro, what could this be? Why it got SO hot? Shouldn’t one engine maintain somewhat appropriate temperature or APU at least non-fainting temperature?
 
Wow! That would be brutal. I was on a Southwest flight once and in the back of the plane. Something was up with the AC/climate control because even at altitude it was still really hot. I and others sweated through an undershirt and polo. I can’t imagine being on a hot plane with people passing out and pooping themselves.
 
Also, I’ve been in questionable shape on more than one flight leaving Vegas after a few days. I dread being hungover and stuck on that hot plane.
 
Definitely not normal. An A/C cart should have been used at the gate, and at least one engine is usually started on pushback, both running by the time they're in line for takeoff. Definitely an A/C issue. I've seen instances where the cockpit was comfortable but the cabin was insufferable, so by the time the flight attendants alerted the cockpit, it was probably pretty hot. You hope to believe they didn't plan to take off knowing there was an issue, and "it will cool off when we reach altitude."
 
Definitely not normal. An A/C cart should have been used at the gate, and at least one engine is usually started on pushback, both running by the time they're in line for takeoff. Definitely an A/C issue. I've seen instances where the cockpit was comfortable but the cabin was insufferable, so by the time the flight attendants alerted the cockpit, it was probably pretty hot. You hope to believe they didn't plan to take off knowing there was an issue, and "it will cool off when we reach altitude."
Yeah, A LOT of questions here. I don’t think they were at the gate, so cart wasn’t an option. But then, if AC issues why departing at all?
 
"Passengers were then given a choice to leave the plane, according to Garvin, but were told that if they did, it may take days to get another flight to Atlanta"

Why should it take "days" to get another flight to Atlanta from Vegas?

 
I have been once in similar situation, stranded on ATR 72 in Atlanta due to tornado and that thing couldn’t maintain appropriate temperature inside. We set 3hrs.
Another time was at EWR on 767-400 with Continental en route to Milan (looking at you @Astro14 ) when we had to wait and pilots turned off one engine. It got hot, but not like ATR72 and especially NOT like this:

This seems like failure on so many levels.
Astro, what could this be? Why it got SO hot? Shouldn’t one engine maintain somewhat appropriate temperature or APU at least non-fainting temperature?
OT: In LV it gets so hot they will sometimes have to bump some passengers in order to decrease weight so that the plane can get off the ground. The risk of this occurring is especially high on afternoon flights during the summer. The hot air also makes landings in to LV exciting.

Hot air has less density which means less lift.
 
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"Passengers were then given a choice to leave the plane, according to Garvin, but were told that if they did, it may take days to get another flight to Atlanta"

Why should it take "days" to get another flight to Atlanta from Vegas?

Well they did say "may:". I any case flights are booked this time of year. I almost got bumped from LV to ATL a little over a week ago. The heat itself can cause passengers to get bumped (see my post above).
 
Well, a couple of thoughts.

First, yeah, it could take days to rebook, because the subsequent flights are all completely filled. That’s the nature of current air travel - demand has exceeded capacity, that’s why fares have gone up, and that means that there are no open seats for the next couple of days.

Next, when it’s 110° outside, and you’ve got the body heat, yes, body heat, of a few hundred people on the airplane, the actual load in terms of BTU on the air conditioning is phenomenal. The air conditioning system, which is a set of compressors and heat exchangers, has to take the heat that is being added to the airplane from electronic systems, mechanical systems, the passengers themselves, and the sun itself that is baking the exterior metal of the aircraft, and reject all that heat into 115° air. It can get overwhelmed. It isn’t like a car, where you’re only trying to cool the interior, and a couple of people. You’ve got hundreds of people - and even a car on the tarmac, in the sun, with that outside air temperature is going to have the air conditioning system overwhelmed.

An external AC cart is simply overwhelmed, and the airplane can’t be kept cool by the external AC. Not even close.

I’ve been in Las Vegas when the temperature is over 110°F with the APU running, and both AC packs operating, and no people on board. The AC system could not get the airplane below about 90°F. There is simply too much thermal load from the sun itself hammering the airplane, and not enough temperature differential across the heat exchangers. And once the entire interior, and all of the structure of the aircraft, get up to that kind of temperature, the only way to really cool it off is to get the thing up to altitude and let it radiate/transfer all that heat into the cold air.

Some aircraft manufacturers, for example, Airbus, don’t even published takeoff performance data above 45°C. It’s simply too hot for the airplane to operate. In fact, when I was flying the airbus, A320, Airbus came out with a bulletin, and it said to leave the flaps at position one (slats extended) when parking at the gate in those kinds of temperatures. It turns out that the sun heating the leading edge of the wing would trigger a bleed air leak warning.

I cannot tell you what happened here, cause I don’t have enough detail. It clearly got hot on the Delta flight. If they were operating with one of the two air conditioning, compressors, known as packs, off, perhaps that’s why the heat, I don’t know. I will tell you that in that kind of temperature everything has to be working perfectly and it’s still gonna be 90° on the airplane until you get airborne.

The reason I know about the Airbus bulletin, is that one day, in Vegas, when it was 110° outside, we got the bleed leak warning on an Airbus. We declared an emergency and it took us 10 minutes to get back to the gate, which is quick. But, because the bleed leak procedure required us to shut down bleed air, which runs the AC compressors, we spent 10 minutes without AC on the tarmac it that day in Las Vegas, and the temperature inside the cabin went from 85 to 105 in that 10 minutes, there was nothing we could do, we taxied as quickly as we could.

Once we figured out that the warning was caused by the extreme heat on the leading edge of the wing, we repositioned the flaps, and ran the AC for two hours on the APU. Two hours of running the AC full blast in that heat, and we still couldn’t get the cabin below about 85° - 90. That was with an empty airplane. So, The captain went and spoke with the people in the gate area. Explained what was going on with the airplane told them what to expect for temperature.

So, we boarded to take off for Washington, Dulles, and with people on the temperature climbed quickly to 90, that’s with both engines running, and both AC packs running everything was working perfectly, but the temperature load was simply so high that the airplane could not cool below 90°.

People were complaining, and I get it. Our choice was to go back to the gate and cancel the flight or to put up with 90°+ temperatures for about 20 minutes and get going on our way to Dulles.

All the complaining in the world isn’t going to change the basic thermodynamics, you have to have a temperature differential across the heat exchanger in order to reject a certain amount of heat. So, as the outside air temperature continues to climb, and the actual temperature on the ramp can be up over 120°, hotter than the outside air temp, because of other airplanes, their exhaust, the heating of the surface, etc. there is not enough temperature differential across the heat exchangers to move the BTUs out of the airplane.
 
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Well, a couple of thoughts.

First, yeah, it could take days to rebook, because the subsequent flights are all completely filled. That’s the nature of current air travel - demand has exceeded capacity, that’s why fares have gone up, and that means that there are no open seats for the next couple of days.

Next, when it’s 110° outside, and you’ve got the body heat, yes, body heat, of a few hundred people on the airplane, the actual load in terms of BTU on the air conditioning is phenomenal. The air conditioning system, which is a set of compressors and heat exchangers, has to take the heat that is being added to the airplane from electronic systems, mechanical systems, the passengers themselves, and the sun itself that is baking the exterior metal of the aircraft, and reject all that heat into 115° air. It can get overwhelmed. It isn’t like a car, where you’re only trying to cool the interior, and a couple of people. You’ve got hundreds of people - and even a car on the tarmac, in the sun, with that outside air temperature is going to have the air conditioning system overwhelmed.

An external AC cart is simply overwhelmed, and the airplane can’t be kept cool by the external AC. Not even close.

I’ve been in Las Vegas when the temperature is over 110°F with the APU running, and both AC packs operating, and no people on board. The AC system could not get the airplane below about 90°F. There is simply too much thermal load from the sun itself hammering the airplane, and not enough temperature differential across the heat exchangers. And once the entire interior, and all of the structure of the aircraft, get up to that kind of temperature, the only way to really cool it off is to get the thing up to altitude and let it radiate/transfer all that heat into the cold air.

Some aircraft manufacturers, for example, Airbus, don’t even published takeoff performance data above 45°C. It’s simply too hot for the airplane to operate. In fact, when I was flying the airbus, A320, Airbus came out with a bulletin, and it said to leave the flaps at position one (slats extended) when parking at the gate in those kinds of temperatures. It turns out that the sun heating the leading edge of the wing would trigger a bleed air leak warning.

I cannot tell you what happened here, cause I don’t have enough detail. It clearly got hot on the Delta flight. If they were operating with one of the two air conditioning, compressors, known as packs, off, perhaps that’s why the heat, I don’t know. I will tell you that in that kind of temperature everything has to be working perfectly and it’s still gonna be 90° on the airplane until you get airborne.

The reason I know about the Airbus bulletin, is that one day, in Vegas, when it was 110° outside, we got the bleed leak warning on an Airbus. We declared an emergency and it took us 10 minutes to get back to the gate, which is quick. But, because the bleed leak procedure required us to shut down bleed air, which runs the AC compressors, we spent 10 minutes without AC on the tarmac it that day in Las Vegas, and the temperature inside the cabin went from 85 to 105 in that 10 minutes, there was nothing we could do, we taxied as quickly as we could.

Once we figured out that the warning was caused by the extreme heat on the leading edge of the wing, we repositioned the flaps, and ran the AC for two hours on the APU. Two hours of running the AC full blast in that heat, and we still couldn’t get the cabin below about 85° - 90. That was with an empty airplane. So, The captain went and spoke with the people in the gate area. Explained what was going on with the airplane told them what to expect for temperature.

So, we boarded to take off for Washington, Dulles, and with people on the temperature climbed quickly to 90, that’s with both engines running, and both AC packs running everything was working perfectly, but the temperature load was simply so high that the airplane could not cool below 90°.

People were complaining, and I get it. Our choice was to go back to the gate and cancel the flight or to put up with 90°+ temperatures for about 20 minutes and get going on our way to Dulles.

All the complaining in the world isn’t going to change the basic thermodynamics, you have to have a temperature differential across the heat exchanger in order to reject a certain amount of heat. So, as the outside air temperature continues to climb, and the actual temperature on the ramp can be up over 120°, hotter than the outside air temp, because of other airplanes, their exhaust, the heating of the surface, etc. there is not enough temperature differential across the heat exchangers to move the BTUs out of the airplane.
So the triple 7’s have the quite visible ports for what’s seen in this picture - what all can these APU’s do for the cabin ?

IMG_1072.jpeg
 
I have been once in similar situation, stranded on ATR 72 in Atlanta due to tornado and that thing couldn’t maintain appropriate temperature inside. We set 3hrs.
Another time was at EWR on 767-400 with Continental en route to Milan (looking at you @Astro14 ) when we had to wait and pilots turned off one engine. It got hot, but not like ATR72 and especially NOT like this:

This seems like failure on so many levels.
Astro, what could this be? Why it got SO hot? Shouldn’t one engine maintain somewhat appropriate temperature or APU at least non-fainting temperature?
From my aviation management classes I think one side runs the A/C off of the hot side. If that side is shut down no A/C.
 
OT: In LV it gets so hot they will sometimes have to bump some passengers in order to decrease weight so that the plane can get off the ground. The risk of this occurring is especially high on afternoon flights during the summer. The hot air also makes landings in to LV exciting.

Hot air has less density which means less lift.
Yeah, I spend more time in LV than I would like. This weather is what I call “eye popping heat.”
 
"Passengers were then given a choice to leave the plane, according to Garvin, but were told that if they did, it may take days to get another flight to Atlanta"

Why should it take "days" to get another flight to Atlanta from Vegas?

Demand this year is through the charts. Companies don’t have enough capacity to catch up. They didn’t expect such turnaround after COVID. This is ok. Try to pay decent price to fly to Europe. It is mission impossible.
Though, I must say, I am not sure who in the right mind visits Vegas at this time of the year.
 
when I saw the title of this thread, I wondered if they would be providing drawn butter as well
 
I'd do a lot more air travel if people weren't treated like cattle.
Then just get one of those en suite A-380 cabins. You're treated like royalty. It’ll cost you about $100,000 for a round trip ticket to Hong Kong, but you won’t be treated like cattle.

The sense of entitlement… “I want to sit in a $250 million dollar piece of equipment, with trained, experienced crew, travel at 600 mph, halfway around the globe, and I don’t want to pay more than $500 each way” … “wait, I can’t get all that and big seats, too?”

No, because it costs money to buy the airplane, to run the airplane, to train the crew, to pay the crew, to pay the leases on the ground facilities, to pay the airport landing fees, and to pay the folks who service and load the airplane.

You have a choice. Want bigger seats? Luxury? At 600 mph crossing the Pacific? Pony up the cash.

You could buy a Gulfstream 600, like @Cujet services, for about $100 million. Then we can talk the cost of hangars, servicing, fuel and crew.

Flying, at today’s prices, is an incredible deal. Ten times the speed of your car, able to cross oceans, thousands of times safer than your car.

And it costs less per mile than operating your car.

Truly amazing.
 
Then just get one of those en suite A-380 cabins. You're treated like royalty. It’ll cost you about $100,000 for a round trip ticket to Hong Kong, but you won’t be treated like cattle.

The sense of entitlement… “I want to sit in a $250 million dollar piece of equipment, with trained, experienced crew, travel at 600 mph, halfway around the globe, and I don’t want to pay more than $500 each way” … “wait, I can’t get all that and big seats, too?”

No, because it costs money to buy the airplane, to run the airplane, to train the crew, to pay the crew, to pay the leases on the ground facilities, to pay the airport landing fees, and to pay the folks who service and load the airplane.

You have a choice. Want bigger seats? Luxury? At 600 mph crossing the Pacific? Pony up the cash.

You could buy a Gulfstream 600, like @Cujet services, for about $100 million. Then we can talk the cost of hangars, servicing, fuel and crew.

Flying, at today’s prices, is an incredible deal. Ten times the speed of your car, able to cross oceans, thousands of times safer than your car.

And it costs less per mile than operating your car.

Truly amazing.

Oh the creature comforts and seat size don't bother me. I sleep the entire flight so I really don't care about that.

My gripe has always been the TSA. Or issues where the plane sits on the tarmac for 3 or 4 hours.
 
Oh the creature comforts and seat size don't bother me. I sleep the entire flight so I really don't care about that.

My gripe has always been the TSA. Or issues where the plane sits on the tarmac for 3 or 4 hours.
I can’t help you with either of those. Sadly. Wish I could because we all suffer from those two things.

Both are government-imposed externalities endemic across the business. See the thread on the EWR meltdown, for example. Governments run airports and air traffic control.
 
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