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OLM Accuracy
- Thread starter Youthanasia
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Originally Posted By: raytseng
where is that quote from?
ive never seen thst wording before from lexus or toyota.
if i google it, it only comes from yourmechanic.com which is some website where they autofill in various manufacturers into boilerplate articles to get your clicks and for you to sign up for their service
toyota/lexus has always been a 5000/10000 counter and does not use an algorithm.
to be more precise its a maint. required light so you go get serviced and arent like that sister of a poster whose finally got her rav4 looked at after 9years but 3days late by a third party mechanic but somehow blames toyota for it
Me? 5k oci page 38 2017 Camry Warranty & Maintenance Guide. Special operating conditions.
where is that quote from?
ive never seen thst wording before from lexus or toyota.
if i google it, it only comes from yourmechanic.com which is some website where they autofill in various manufacturers into boilerplate articles to get your clicks and for you to sign up for their service
toyota/lexus has always been a 5000/10000 counter and does not use an algorithm.
to be more precise its a maint. required light so you go get serviced and arent like that sister of a poster whose finally got her rav4 looked at after 9years but 3days late by a third party mechanic but somehow blames toyota for it
Me? 5k oci page 38 2017 Camry Warranty & Maintenance Guide. Special operating conditions.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: raytseng
where is that quote from?
ive never seen thst wording before from lexus or toyota.
if i google it, it only comes from yourmechanic.com which is some website where they autofill in various manufacturers into boilerplate articles to get your clicks and for you to sign up for their service
toyota/lexus has always been a 5000/10000 counter and does not use an algorithm.
to be more precise its a maint. required light so you go get serviced and arent like that sister of a poster whose finally got her rav4 looked at after 9years but 3days late by a third party mechanic but somehow blames toyota for it
Me? 5k oci page 38 2017 Camry Warranty & Maintenance Guide. Special operating conditions.
no the quote in the op with all the made up drivel about a lexus olm.
Originally Posted By: raytseng
where is that quote from?
ive never seen thst wording before from lexus or toyota.
if i google it, it only comes from yourmechanic.com which is some website where they autofill in various manufacturers into boilerplate articles to get your clicks and for you to sign up for their service
toyota/lexus has always been a 5000/10000 counter and does not use an algorithm.
to be more precise its a maint. required light so you go get serviced and arent like that sister of a poster whose finally got her rav4 looked at after 9years but 3days late by a third party mechanic but somehow blames toyota for it
Me? 5k oci page 38 2017 Camry Warranty & Maintenance Guide. Special operating conditions.
no the quote in the op with all the made up drivel about a lexus olm.
I don't remember my 2010 IS350c having a monitor but it was six months/5k changes IIRC - I did the time as I didn't usually have the miles.
Anyway, found this on the infernalwebs for your consideration...
https://lexusservicesandiego.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/the-truth-in-lexus-oil-change-intervals/
Anyway, found this on the infernalwebs for your consideration...
https://lexusservicesandiego.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/the-truth-in-lexus-oil-change-intervals/
Ford and GM use sophisticated algorithms, although with no direct sensors inserted in the oil. They can't detect fuel dilution due to leaky injectors or bad sealing rings, and can't detect coolant contamination. They look at operating conditions to estimate oil life, doing a good job of it barring mechanical problems.
Originally Posted By: willbur
I vaguely recall that the MB OLM does determine oil quality for OCI, not just operating conditions.
Mercedes and BMW use electronic sensors dipped in the oil to detect excess viscosity and possible contamination (anti-freeze, water, acid buildup) since all that affects capacitive and resistive properties. Oil level and temperature too. Google "oil quality sensor mercedes". The weirdest surprise is how visc is estimated, in part, by:
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
Originally Posted By: willbur
I vaguely recall that the MB OLM does determine oil quality for OCI, not just operating conditions.
Mercedes and BMW use electronic sensors dipped in the oil to detect excess viscosity and possible contamination (anti-freeze, water, acid buildup) since all that affects capacitive and resistive properties. Oil level and temperature too. Google "oil quality sensor mercedes". The weirdest surprise is how visc is estimated, in part, by:
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Ford and GM use sophisticated algorithms, although with no direct sensors inserted in the oil. They can't detect fuel dilution due to leaky injectors or bad sealing rings, and can't detect coolant contamination. They look at operating conditions to estimate oil life, doing a good job of it barring mechanical problems.
Originally Posted By: willbur
I vaguely recall that the MB OLM does determine oil quality for OCI, not just operating conditions.
Mercedes and BMW use electronic sensors dipped in the oil to detect excess viscosity and possible contamination (anti-freeze, water, acid buildup) since all that affects capacitive and resistive properties. Oil level and temperature too. Google "oil quality sensor mercedes". The weirdest surprise is how visc is estimated, in part, by:
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
I think that is a pretty common sense approach to detecting viscosity within a narrowly defined situation. It won't tell you "why" it is at that viscosity level. but then it really doesn't matter "why". It probably calculates many thousands of movements over a certain operating time, and comes up with an average. I like it.
Ford and GM use sophisticated algorithms, although with no direct sensors inserted in the oil. They can't detect fuel dilution due to leaky injectors or bad sealing rings, and can't detect coolant contamination. They look at operating conditions to estimate oil life, doing a good job of it barring mechanical problems.
Originally Posted By: willbur
I vaguely recall that the MB OLM does determine oil quality for OCI, not just operating conditions.
Mercedes and BMW use electronic sensors dipped in the oil to detect excess viscosity and possible contamination (anti-freeze, water, acid buildup) since all that affects capacitive and resistive properties. Oil level and temperature too. Google "oil quality sensor mercedes". The weirdest surprise is how visc is estimated, in part, by:
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
I think that is a pretty common sense approach to detecting viscosity within a narrowly defined situation. It won't tell you "why" it is at that viscosity level. but then it really doesn't matter "why". It probably calculates many thousands of movements over a certain operating time, and comes up with an average. I like it.
I've noticed the iOLM in our 2017 2.3 EB Explorer counts down 10% oil life left for every 1,000 miles driven no matter the season or the manner how those miles are accumulated. This does not give me a lot of confidence in relying solely on the iOLM for the best oil change interval. Since this vehicle is a long term "keeper" I'll do some UOA's to see how different oils, seasons and driving conditions effect the the UOA. I posted the first one recently, will post them as I get them.
Whimsey
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Youthanasia
so then ignore it? I'm gonna run it 8k this time on supertech and send in a wix kit
We are on our 5th Lexus. The maintenance required light comes on every 5k miles, regardless of recommended OCI. There are other recommended maintenance items based on 5k mile increments. There are also instructions in the owner's manual on how to turn off the maintenance required light.
so then ignore it? I'm gonna run it 8k this time on supertech and send in a wix kit
We are on our 5th Lexus. The maintenance required light comes on every 5k miles, regardless of recommended OCI. There are other recommended maintenance items based on 5k mile increments. There are also instructions in the owner's manual on how to turn off the maintenance required light.
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
I've noticed the iOLM in our 2017 2.3 EB Explorer counts down 10% oil life left for every 1,000 miles driven no matter the season or the manner how those miles are accumulated. This does not give me a lot of confidence in relying solely on the iOLM for the best oil change interval. Since this vehicle is a long term "keeper" I'll do some UOA's to see how different oils, seasons and driving conditions effect the the UOA. I posted the first one recently, will post them as I get them.
Whimsey
Same here. We had a 2014 Edge 3.5 that I put 40k miles on, and a 2013 F-150 5.0 my wife put 40k miles on. I just had the oil changed at Firestone with thier synthetic blend bulk every 5k and never paid attention to the oil monitor. I wish I had. They never used a drop, never smelled like fuel, and looks as clean at 5k as new. Both of them.
I've noticed the iOLM in our 2017 2.3 EB Explorer counts down 10% oil life left for every 1,000 miles driven no matter the season or the manner how those miles are accumulated. This does not give me a lot of confidence in relying solely on the iOLM for the best oil change interval. Since this vehicle is a long term "keeper" I'll do some UOA's to see how different oils, seasons and driving conditions effect the the UOA. I posted the first one recently, will post them as I get them.
Whimsey
Same here. We had a 2014 Edge 3.5 that I put 40k miles on, and a 2013 F-150 5.0 my wife put 40k miles on. I just had the oil changed at Firestone with thier synthetic blend bulk every 5k and never paid attention to the oil monitor. I wish I had. They never used a drop, never smelled like fuel, and looks as clean at 5k as new. Both of them.
Originally Posted By: Youthanasia
2014 IS350, manual says 10,000 mile OCI, but my light usually comes on around 5k no matter what oil I use. This got me wondering how accurate the monitor actually is, Lexus OLM information states:
Every 5k the light comes on for service for Toyotas. Which is checking the fluid levels, tire rotation, floor mat secured correctly and maybe a few other minor things. The dealer charges $38 for this or go to Walmart for a $10 rotation. Discount Tire may even do it for free. If you recently had new tires installed many installers do it for free as well.
Every 10k the oil is changed.
2014 IS350, manual says 10,000 mile OCI, but my light usually comes on around 5k no matter what oil I use. This got me wondering how accurate the monitor actually is, Lexus OLM information states:
Every 5k the light comes on for service for Toyotas. Which is checking the fluid levels, tire rotation, floor mat secured correctly and maybe a few other minor things. The dealer charges $38 for this or go to Walmart for a $10 rotation. Discount Tire may even do it for free. If you recently had new tires installed many installers do it for free as well.
Every 10k the oil is changed.
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: Youthanasia
2014 IS350, manual says 10,000 mile OCI, but my light usually comes on around 5k no matter what oil I use. This got me wondering how accurate the monitor actually is, Lexus OLM information states:
Every 5k the light comes on for service for Toyotas. Which is checking the fluid levels, tire rotation, floor mat secured correctly and maybe a few other minor things. The dealer charges $38 for this or go to Walmart for a $10 rotation. Discount Tire may even do it for free. If you recently had new tires installed many installers do it for free as well.
Every 10k the oil is changed.
Unless its an older Toyota then it changed every five. If you want full synthetic that's extra more that double what I can do it with better oil. I believe my local Toyota dealer charges $79 plus tax and I can do the change with Full Synthetic and a Fram Ultra or a Purolator one for under $30.
Originally Posted By: Youthanasia
2014 IS350, manual says 10,000 mile OCI, but my light usually comes on around 5k no matter what oil I use. This got me wondering how accurate the monitor actually is, Lexus OLM information states:
Every 5k the light comes on for service for Toyotas. Which is checking the fluid levels, tire rotation, floor mat secured correctly and maybe a few other minor things. The dealer charges $38 for this or go to Walmart for a $10 rotation. Discount Tire may even do it for free. If you recently had new tires installed many installers do it for free as well.
Every 10k the oil is changed.
Unless its an older Toyota then it changed every five. If you want full synthetic that's extra more that double what I can do it with better oil. I believe my local Toyota dealer charges $79 plus tax and I can do the change with Full Synthetic and a Fram Ultra or a Purolator one for under $30.
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
I think that is a pretty common sense approach to detecting viscosity within a narrowly defined situation. It won't tell you "why" it is at that viscosity level. but then it really doesn't matter "why". It probably calculates many thousands of movements over a certain operating time, and comes up with an average. I like it.
I used to do a lot of 'Equations of Motion' differential equations, including simulating slosh in rocket tanks, and I've got to admit I wish I would have thought of this very cool trick to *roughly* measure viscosity!! They have to be using the common on-board body accelerometers to measure side to side (lateral) and fore-and-aft (longitudinal) accelerations, and then they are running a real-time simulation on the car's computer as the real thing sloshes. ... Its easier than you think, and computers these days are lightning fast enough to do it. IOTW, a simple transfer function really. .... Then, the actual sloshing, as measured by the Mercedes oil level sensor, is compared to the expected peak values from the simulation, and the result is a pretty good estimate of the viscosity. Clever.
Another way they could do it is to compare a power spectral density (PSD) calculation or fast fourier transform (FFT) between input (accelerations) and output (oil level) and simply note the higher frequency attenuation, which would correlate quite well to viscosity. This method would be the closest to what you proposed about "thousands of movements", since PSD or FFT calculations are done over a period of time. ...... Its all just typical digital signal processing (DSP).
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
I think that is a pretty common sense approach to detecting viscosity within a narrowly defined situation. It won't tell you "why" it is at that viscosity level. but then it really doesn't matter "why". It probably calculates many thousands of movements over a certain operating time, and comes up with an average. I like it.
I used to do a lot of 'Equations of Motion' differential equations, including simulating slosh in rocket tanks, and I've got to admit I wish I would have thought of this very cool trick to *roughly* measure viscosity!! They have to be using the common on-board body accelerometers to measure side to side (lateral) and fore-and-aft (longitudinal) accelerations, and then they are running a real-time simulation on the car's computer as the real thing sloshes. ... Its easier than you think, and computers these days are lightning fast enough to do it. IOTW, a simple transfer function really. .... Then, the actual sloshing, as measured by the Mercedes oil level sensor, is compared to the expected peak values from the simulation, and the result is a pretty good estimate of the viscosity. Clever.
Another way they could do it is to compare a power spectral density (PSD) calculation or fast fourier transform (FFT) between input (accelerations) and output (oil level) and simply note the higher frequency attenuation, which would correlate quite well to viscosity. This method would be the closest to what you proposed about "thousands of movements", since PSD or FFT calculations are done over a period of time. ...... Its all just typical digital signal processing (DSP).
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
I think that is a pretty common sense approach to detecting viscosity within a narrowly defined situation. It won't tell you "why" it is at that viscosity level. but then it really doesn't matter "why". It probably calculates many thousands of movements over a certain operating time, and comes up with an average. I like it.
I used to do a lot of 'Equations of Motion' differential equations, including simulating slosh in rocket tanks, and I've got to admit I wish I would have thought of this very cool trick to *roughly* measure viscosity!! They have to be using the common on-board body accelerometers to measure side to side (lateral) and fore-and-aft (longitudinal) accelerations, and then they are running a real-time simulation on the car's computer as the real thing sloshes. ... Its easier than you think, and computers these days are lightning fast enough to do it. IOTW, a simple transfer function really. .... Then, the actual sloshing, as measured by the Mercedes oil level sensor, is compared to the expected peak values from the simulation, and the result is a pretty good estimate of the viscosity. Clever.
Another way they could do it is to compare a power spectral density (PSD) calculation or fast fourier transform (FFT) between input (accelerations) and output (oil level) and simply note the higher frequency attenuation, which would correlate quite well to viscosity. This method would be the closest to what you proposed about "thousands of movements", since PSD or FFT calculations are done over a period of time. ...... Its all just typical digital signal processing (DSP).
Thanx! That broke it down!
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
"The Daimler researchers can also measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil's side-to-side motion in the sump. The more slowly the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by the oil sensor and the viscosity calculated on this basis."
I think that is a pretty common sense approach to detecting viscosity within a narrowly defined situation. It won't tell you "why" it is at that viscosity level. but then it really doesn't matter "why". It probably calculates many thousands of movements over a certain operating time, and comes up with an average. I like it.
I used to do a lot of 'Equations of Motion' differential equations, including simulating slosh in rocket tanks, and I've got to admit I wish I would have thought of this very cool trick to *roughly* measure viscosity!! They have to be using the common on-board body accelerometers to measure side to side (lateral) and fore-and-aft (longitudinal) accelerations, and then they are running a real-time simulation on the car's computer as the real thing sloshes. ... Its easier than you think, and computers these days are lightning fast enough to do it. IOTW, a simple transfer function really. .... Then, the actual sloshing, as measured by the Mercedes oil level sensor, is compared to the expected peak values from the simulation, and the result is a pretty good estimate of the viscosity. Clever.
Another way they could do it is to compare a power spectral density (PSD) calculation or fast fourier transform (FFT) between input (accelerations) and output (oil level) and simply note the higher frequency attenuation, which would correlate quite well to viscosity. This method would be the closest to what you proposed about "thousands of movements", since PSD or FFT calculations are done over a period of time. ...... Its all just typical digital signal processing (DSP).
Thanx! That broke it down!
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