Old Surge Protector Still Good?

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South Carolina
Originally Posted by bobdoo
There's been a warehouse-sized pile of poo posted on this thread. You should use surge protectors on expensive equipment. You should read *all* of this review, which answers the BS posted here. https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-surge-protector/#how-we-tested Whole-house protectors don't 'clamp' till around 500v. SP's clamp at less than half of that.
Good point, GOOD POST, also I have read all years of The Wirecutter Tests ... and maybe Consumer Reports a very long time ago. I just re-read your link and everyone should read all of their 3 years of reviews. However I do not buy anything based on their personal ratings because they only recommend units that shut down once their life is over and I dont need or agree with that and its marketing to charge an extra $10 or more. Also, it is true that the "let through" voltage of whole house protectors is a lot higher (not as good) it is why even IF I had a whole house I would still use what I do, it would be just an extra, extra measure of protection. Surge Suppression is cheap and I am guessing I have 20 suppressors or more in use in my home. One point people miss, is most good suppressors will also have basic noise filtering built in. I do look up the "let through" specs on the surge protectors I buy. And why to me, without question, one of the best values out there is the Belkin Commerical Surge Strips. I paid just a year or so ago by searching around, less then $14 at the time, can still be bought on Amazon at $16. Commercial means just, plain jane looking surge strip minus all the fancy lights and decals, (No marketing) However, Belkin is a good name, with a good Clamping Voltage of 330, Total Combined 2500 joules plus of course line noise filtering, it cant be beat for the money. APC, Trip Light, also good names. I buy price and why right now I have the plain box, plain jane Belkin Commerical and of course the Tripplite, oops, a few Cyber Power too, along with a Cyber Power UPS for the Modem and Router ... :o) and lets not forget those Ferrite Snap on Noise Filters on every wire for every electronic in the home, actually I use 2 on each line. :o) What I dont agree with in The WireCutter story is their ratings and lets me honest, they look to make money selling these things so there has to be a rating, nothing wrong with that though. Anyway, the only top rated surge suppressors are the expensive ones (they make more money) and those are the ones that automatically shut off at the end of their life. Me personally, I would never buy one of those for my own reasons, I dont need my hand to be held and why I will never have a surge for more then 10 years. Also I do not need to come hope on day to find my electronics dead or my aquarium dead because a surge strip reached the end of its life. So bottom line, Belkin and all brands did great, except they only rate the ones that kill themselves at the end of its life as good. AS I stated in other posts, I use cheap but good quality wall based surge suppressors in the outlet, then plug a Belkin Commerical Strip into that. Of course, again, it doesnt have to be Belkin, not that I am in love with the company, not at all, I buy on quality and price. Mentally I prefer Trip Light and (APC to some degree WITHOUT any type of shut down once its life it finished, to me its stupid) On my expensive Home Theater System. I use a Belkin Commerical Power Strip Plugged into a Tripp Lite Isoblok 2-0. The Trip Light Isoblok2 has a clamping voltage of 140 !!! So that is the first line of defense for the home theater, THEN the Belkin Commerical Power Strip/Surge is the second line of defense with 330 clamping voltage, which is also fantastic.
 
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774
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E. Tennessee
FWIW: When we built our new house in 2017, I had the excellent Square-D HOM2175SB installed in the first panel (I have two) located less than 1.5 meters (wire length) from the service entrance and master grounding rod. All other sockets with devices of interest had APC P6W devices installed (microwave, tank-less HW heater, garage door opener, standing freezer, refrigerator, washing machine, garbage disposal, etc.). Each AV center (I have three) got their own new surge strip (APC) while my computer setup had a CyberPower Regulating UPS. My garage based AV panel (cable/Ethernet/fiber optic modem/router) had the new Leviton Surge suppressor block installed. All these have EMI filtering as well. I have underground utilities at the back of a subdivision (new). https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...rizontal3_rr-_-100143165-_-100182531-_-N I feel pretty confident I'm well protected from all but a near/direct Lightning strike and you can't really protect much against that.
 
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75
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ca
Originally Posted by bobdoo
You should use surge protectors on expensive equipment.
When it comes to poo, wirecutter.com reeks. Outright lies abound. It says nothing about protection - as that poster demonstrated by not citing one technical fact.. Somehow outside appearance and an ability to 'block' a surge determines quality. Where does wirecutter.com discuss a number of absorbed joules? Ignored. When does it say what that proptector does to protect anything. Nothing stated. Not one specification numbers - the first indication of a scam. A $14 protector or those many expensive wirecutter.com recommendations - all are nothing more than $3 power strips with five cent protector parts. None - not one - can (or even tries to) answer this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? A solution that costs abut $1 per appliance has done that protection routinely even over 100 years ago. Clamping voltage says nothing useful. Surges are a current source - not a voltage source/ A protector with near zero joules will be at a voltage approaching 900 volts. A 'whole house' protector (properly sized) remains at maybe as much as 400 volts. Surge protection is always about current - not voltage. Anything that foolishly tries to block that current only increases the voltage. Current source - another fundamental concept that the electrically informed are taught in the first semester. Alarm guys never learn what is it since alarm systems do not use current sources. And do not require electrical knowledge to be installed. Anything that foolishly tries to 'block' or 'absorb' a surge means voltage will increase as necessary to keep current flowing. A surge is a current source; not a voltage source. Surge will simply blow through a plug-in protector. No problem. A surge that destroys a protector is also too tiny to overwhelm superior protection already inside all appliances. Wirecutter.com never discusses that well understood EE concept. But then it need not discuss it. They are marketing a scam only to the most electrically naive. Even those reviews admit that a protector must somehow 'block' or 'absorb' a surge. Any informed adult can see the problem. How does that 2 cm parts 'block' what three miles of sky cannot. It cannot. A scam is easily promoted. How does its tiny joules 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules. Scammed consumers will not even discuss that [censored] question. Otherwise they have to admit to so easilly being scammed. No protector does protection. Not one. An effective protector does not foolishly try to 'block' or 'absorb' a surge. An effective protector connect a surge (ie 20,000 amps) harmlessly to earth ground so that no voltage is inside on appliances. Essential to even protect tiny joule plug-in protectors - to avert fire. Companies (and products) well known for integrity are not anywhere in that wirecutter.com citation. Why did APC finally admit some 15 million protectors must be removed immediate due to many hundreds of house fires. Well APC has more credibility that others such as Tripplite, Belkin, Panamax, and Monster. But even this APC protector (and fire) is not on APC's recall list: https://imgur.com/hwCWHMW Apparently that model has not created almost 1000 house fires. Critical to every layer of protection is the only item that does protection - that harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Effective protectors connect low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) to earth via a 'whole house' protector. As professionals have well known for over 100 years. Facilities (even 100 years ago) that cannot have damage always use a properly earthed solution. An employee might even be fired for using ineffective and fire prone Belkin, APC, Tripplite, et al protectors. FAcilities that cannot have damage cannot have items that create fires. Properly earthed 'whole house' protector means a surge current remains outside. And only creates a few hundreds of volts. That same current can create 900 volts in a tiny joule plug-in protector. That same current that destroyed near zero protectors is also too tiny to damage adjacent electronics. Unless (of course) that protector foolishly connects that current 8000 volts destructively through some nearby TV. An IEEE brochure demonstrates a protector in one room earths a surge 8000 volts destructively via a TV in an adjacent room. It failed to block a surge. So it diverts that current (not voltage - current) to earth destructively via any nearby appliance. Most transients are routinely made irrelevant by superior protection already inside appliances. Any surge (maybe one every ten years) that might overwhelm that superior protection must be earthed BEFORE entering a building. But that requires an informed consumer. Surge protectors that cannot connect to earth ground (too far away) are rated in numbers of joules to be 'blocked' or 'absorbed'. Wirecutter.com and other propaganda will never discuss such numbers. Even clamping voltage (which is both irrelevant and incorrectly cited) is irrelevant. Effective protectors are rated in amps. A direct lightning strike can be 20,000 amps. So a minimally sized 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Since protectors must not fail for many decades and after many direct lightning strikes. And must not fail catastrophically as tiny joule plug-in protectors do. Effective protectors are not sacrificial devices. Profit increase when they are. Anyone can also cite noise filtering inside a protector - with a number. Nobody does. A filter might exist - that does nothing for noise. That filter diverts more of a surge aways from protector parts - to avert fire. Then a protector is less likely to create a fire during testing - to obtain a UL 1449 listing. A passive filter must weight tens of pounds to perform noise filtering. Obviously the tiny filter in a protector does nothing for noise. Professionals note this constantly. Protection is always about the earth ground. Only then can hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate safely outside; not be anywhere inside. Effective protectors always have a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth. Since that connection (not the protector) defines all protection. Articles that promote scams do not even discuss products from manufacturers of integrity. Profit centers are recommended by another educated only by lies in wirecutter.com Protectors that actually do protection always - as in always - have a low impedance connection to single point earth ground. To even protect tiny joules plug-in protectors that cost many times more money. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Only honest posters know that and know why. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Only then is everything protected.
 
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Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
FWIW: When we built our new house in 2017, I had the excellent Square-D HOM2175SB installed in the first panel (I have two) located less than 1.5 meters (wire length) from the service entrance and master grounding rod.
Generally that protector is undersized. Effective 'whole house' protectors start at 50,000 amps. Because effective protectors never fail after many decades and many direct lightning strikes. If your neighborhood has little history of surge damage, then two may be sufficient. And since the earth ground sounds like it was properly installed, then plug-in protectors are less likely to create fire. An IEEE Standard defines what each protector does. That 'whole house' protector (if properly earthed) would do 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. So it is not perfect. And then the IEEE further defines those numbers:
Quote
Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ... Protection at 99.5% is the practical choice.
Numbers define what does almost all protection. Not just a protector. Because earth ground (not the protector) defines protection. Why do plug-in protectors do so little (maybe another 0.2% more protection)? It has no earth ground. It can only 'block' or 'absorb' a surge. That is routinely made irrelevant by robust protection already inside all electronics - even in dimmer switches, dishwasher, LED bulbs, GFCIs, and smoke detectors. What most must be protected is a surge exists? Smoke detectors. Just another reason why that 'whole house' protector is so more essential.
 
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westom, You either outright lied, or you weren't capable of understanding literally a couple, very simple sentences in wirecutter's review. I can't imagine what commercial connection would prompt you to do this, so I'm guessing you don't get out much? You should see your doctor, and discuss your posting 'issues'. Seriously. Your life doesn't have to be this miserable.
 
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San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted by bobdoo
westom, You either outright lied, or you weren't capable of understanding literally a couple, very simple sentences in wirecutter's review. I can't imagine what commercial connection would prompt you to do this, so I'm guessing you don't get out much? You should see your doctor, and discuss your posting 'issues'. Seriously. Your life doesn't have to be this miserable.
Sounds like you've seen his "work".
 
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Originally Posted by bobdoo
You should see your doctor, and discuss your posting 'issues'. Seriously. Your life doesn't have to be this miserable.
Evil must disparage others to mask a glaring fact. No knowledge. The naive will post insults when numbers make obvious what they don;t know. An adult thinking like an adult would have posted numeric contradictions or question facts with numbers. Honest people always provide those numbers. The deceived cannot. Those most easily brainwashed by extremist rhetoric will not. Proof is, instead, in defamation. Defamation - not intellectual grasp of reality - is why lesser people post insults. Inspired by someone so intellectually challenged that he is also smarter than the generals. Absolutely amazing how many use childish emotions to replace adult conversations.
 

Y_K

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WA (USA)
Originally Posted by bobdoo
westom, You either outright lied, or you weren't capable of understanding literally a couple, very simple sentences in wirecutter's review..
The man invokes Physics, while you refer to some marketing stream of characters. Admittedly, it requires some effort and could be painful, when shortcuts are abound. The history of mankind could be presented as History of Shortcuts. Apparently, simple things, even Ohm's Law can be difficult at first. Start with Voltage, Current, Resistance. Then gently move on to Impedance, Capacitance and Inductance. Hysteresis is around the corner...
 
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Thread starter
Could someone please tell this layman where to get this protector that only costs $1 per television, computer, or etc? Also, for Westom. Does my Sony PlayStation 4 have built-in noise filtering or should I keep it plugged in to the Monster Clean Power HTS400? The HTS400 advertises noise protection to ensure optimal functioning of whatever is plugged in to it.
 
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Its real simple, almost all electronics are made with the possibility of power surges and this is normally designed right into the power supply of the device. HOWEVER, some devices will be better then others at preventing damage and some power supplies themselves may get damaged and others protection might just degrade over time. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with installing surge suppressors in your home, to me its smart. On our service calls, more so summer, I have been in countless homes where a surge has taken out some electronics but not others on the SAME line. This is simply because some devices did better at protecting themselves, surge suppressors will better your chances that all will survive in those cases. Then of course, a power surge like a very close lightening strike can take out almost everything and its possible a surge will be useless in that case no matter what kind it is. Surge suppressors also have built in noise filtering that may also boast the noise filtering of the devices your are looking to protect. Not sure what all the posts are about here. Nothing at all wrong with putting surge suppressors in your home and is you shop around, it can be done very cheaply with good protection as in the links I provided previously. MANY industries and MUCH expensive equipment use additional power conditioning devices in addition to what is built in.
 
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5,369
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Its real simple, almost all electronics are made with the possibility of power surges and this is normally designed right into the power supply of the device. HOWEVER, some devices will be better then others at preventing damage and some power supplies themselves may get damaged and others protection might just degrade over time. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with installing surge suppressors in your home, to me its smart.
Of course they absorb little surges that slowly degrade the MOVs that most surge protectors use. It may make more sense to have a more easily replaceable device take more of that than something built into a device and which may not be as easily replaceable. Certainly there's nothing wrong with building that into a device power supply.
 
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Originally Posted by y_p_w
Of course they absorb little surges that slowly degrade the MOVs that most surge protectors use. It may make more sense to have a more easily replaceable device take more of that than something built into a device and which may not be as easily replaceable. Certainly there's nothing wrong with building that into a device power supply.
Protectors that plug-in (are adjacent to appliances) do degrade quickly. Undersizing increases profits. Those protectors can also fail catastrophically on a surge too tiny to damage any electronics. Why put those parts inside appliances when appliances already contain protection (without protectors) that is already more robust? Everything degrades. Only relevant is how much (how fast). One 'whole hosue' protector remains functional for many decades even after many direct lightning strikes. With specification numbers that say why. Then are properly sized. Degradation is defined by a voltage number - Vb. One MOV manufacture even defines what a properly sized MOV can withstand before it degrades: > The change of Vb shall be measured after the impulse listed below is applied 10,000 times continuously with the interval of ten seconds at room temperature. All more reasons why plug-in protectors do not even claim effective protection. And why a properly earthed 'whole house' protector is effective protection from all types of surges for many decades. Worse. that plug-in protector can connect a surge directly into a computer's motherboard. Compromising (bypassing) effective protection already inside a PSU. We even demonstrated that in a design review when all powered off computers on a network were damaged by a surge. Plug-in protectors connected that surge directly into motherboards. Then the current found paths to earth via other powered off computers using the network. A fundamental difference exists. Protectors are being recommended subjectively by some who never did any of this. There was always good reason why facilities (that cannot have damage) always implement the 'whole house' solution. Being many times less expensive is only one so so many reasons. First reason - they cannot have any damage. Not even one power supply can be damaged. Even a protector must remains functional - never fail. In some facilities, an employee might even be fired or transfered for using that ineffective plug-in stuff. Since fire is another reason why those tiny joule 'magic boxes' must not be used. Fire? What happens when a hundred joule protector is confronted by a hundreds of thousands of joule surge? Learn ony from those who say why with numbers.
 
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ca
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Could someone please tell this layman where to get this protector that only costs $1 per television, computer, or etc?
I am confused. A '$1 per appliance' solution, that actually does surge protection, was defined many tens (maybe almost 100) times. Do a "find" for paragraphs that contains the phrase 'whole house'. Even posted was:
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Effective protectors protect from all surges including those created by stray cars, tree rodents, linemen errors, wind, utility switching ... and lightning. Lightning does damage when a homeowner is so foolish as to waste money on plug-in protectors. Facilities that cannot suffer damage from any surge (including lightning) do not waste money on magic box, plug-in protectors. So many make effective devices including Intermatic, Square D, Ditek, Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Syscom, Leviton, ABB, Delta, Erico, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). All companies known for integrity.
Numbers apply. Lightning (a typical surge) can be 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Go into any big box hardware store or electrical supply house. Ask for their 'whole house' protector. Then read its specification number. It must be 50,000 amps or greater. That is a best protector. How good? That depend on how well you connect it to single point earth ground. Only you are responsible for providing, inspecting, and maintaining that must critical item. Brand name say little. Effective protection is so old as to be sold as a commodity. Do you care about a farm name that manufactured your peas? Of course not. Same applies to effective protectors. Only specifications matter. Listed were companies of integrity that provide these. Effective protectors are sold by companies making profits rather than effective products. Names such as APC, Belkin, Panamax, Tripplite, Furman, and Monster are not found on 'whole house' protectors -. with an always required and dedicated earth ground hardwire. Maybe you still do not understand? Any protector adjacent to an appliance does not even claim to protect from typically destructive surges. Learn what your telco CO does to suffer 100 surges with each thunderstorm - and no damage. They want their 'whole house' protectors to be up to 50 meters separated from electronics. That separation increases protection. An appliance adjacent protector can even earth a surge destructively through any nearby appliance. Why is that effective protection? Above solution costs about $1 per protected appliance. If any appliance needs protection then every appliance desperately needs that protection. Just another reason why informed consumers and every facility that cannot have damage always implements a 'whole house' solution. Most attention focuses on THE item that defines every layer of protection. Never a protector. Protection is always about how that protector connects low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) to what does the protection: single point earth ground.
 
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What about protection from your utility itself? I'm never going to have a lightning problem. Well, I can't say never, but you get my drift. My utility does like to unclean power, surges, and more commonly, brownouts.
 
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