I have been running M1 T&SUV 5w-40 in my TT for over a year now. Absolutely no complaints. I even run it in the winter. Not real cold here in Maryland. Runs smooth ....
Oil for a VW 1.8T
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crossposted from PassatWorld:
"What is the problem with oil sludge?
The problem is that when sludge forms in the crankcase, lumps of sludge can clog fine passages for the engine oil, thus depriving vital engine parts of lubrication and resulting in engine failure.
How does oil sludge happen?
Sludge happens when the detergent and dispersant capacity of an engine lubricant is saturated. The oil is no longer capable of handling the contamination that then accumulates as a thick black mud in the crankcase.
In recent months.. the press has reported widespread sludge problems with some models.. Saab.. Volkswagen and Chrysler. Our own callers seem to indicate that sludge problems are not limited to these brands. Why is happening?
Much engineering goes in the design of both new engines and lubricants, and the good news is that sludge is a very easy problem to prevent for the final consumer: the technology is available and not expensive at all. Sludge problems occur because for most large players in the industry, preventing sludge comes after other, shorter-term financial priorities.
- For car manufacturers, the priority is to recommend lubricants, which are inexpensive and also can improve fuel economy. This helps them avoid fines for not meeting the CAFE requirements (CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy). Most domestic and Japanese car manufacturers in the US now recommend lubricants that meet a standard called ILSAC. If you compare the most recent ILSAC GF-4 standard with European oil standards, for example, it is fair to say ILSAC is more demanding on fuel economy than it is on preventing black sludge. You’ll find that car manufacturers often do not have the same oil recommendation on the cars they sell in Europe, and there is currently no widespread sludge problem in Europe. One could conclude that oil recommendations of a global car manufacturer have more to do with the environment of each market than with objective technical requirements.
- For the oil industry, the priority is to sell large volumes of oil, so they make a priority of selling large volumes of the dominant oil category (ILSAC GF-4) over promoting more specialized oils, which would require that you explain why they are more expensive. Explaining oil technology costs money, and most oil companies do not see a return on that cost at this point.
- Finally, when sludge occurs, it usually starts as a small problem. If the inexpensive mainstream system like recommending ILSAC works for 90% of a manufacturer's cars, the priority of that manufacturer is not to change the system. The priority is to deal with the remaining 10% as cheaply as possible. First, it means to avoid a class action lawsuit. Admitting a technical problem is often a trigger for class action lawsuits. Not admitting a technical problem makes it harder to correct, though. It makes it harder to spread the information that would help the consumer avoid the problem in the first place. I guess that's why Auto radio shows are in business.
. What can our listeners do to avoid to prevent sludge in their cars?
You'l1 often hear that the two solutions to avoid sludge are :
1. Change your oil more often,
2. Use synthetic oil.
This is not wrong, but I do not think anyone who experienced sludge problem ever thought "hey, let's try how long this oil can hold and let's not change it for a while". Car manufacturers, oil companies and journalists have always recommended to "change your oil often", but sludge problems have appeared in the past five years, so repeating "change your oil" has not proven to be a solution. Also, in Europe, Toyota, VW or Chrysler recommend oil change intervals of at least 7,500 miles or more and they do not have sludge problems there.
Recommending synthetic is a better way to go, but for the past decade, the word "synthetic" has gaind recognition to sell more expensive lubricants. The result is that several cheap and not-so good synthetics have appeared on the market. An oil company does not have to perform any engine test on its product to label it "synthetic". For example, liquid plastic could be labeled "synthetic" and it would not help sludge at all. The only way to test an oil against sludge is to perform engine tests.
The only independent organization that performs serious tests on engine oils against black sludge is called ACEA. The test is called the Mercedes 111 black sludge test, and you can find its description on the following website: http://www.swri.edu/4org/d08/global...ldg/default.htm
What is ACEA?
That's A-C-E-A like in the word PAN-A-C-E-A. ACEA is the association of car manufacturers in Europe. GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler are all members of ACEA, along with 10 other car and truck manufacturers.
You find more and more engine oils that meet ACEA on the US market. One reason is that German manufacturers such as VW, Audi or Mercedes are now demanding oils that meet all the highest ACEA standards for their warranty. Using a mainstream ILSAC oil (recommended for domestic and Japanese cars) in a new German car will probably void your warranty.
Wait a minute. Volkswagen had sludge problems too. The ACEA standard did not help much for them either.
They did not use it at the time. Only in the past 6 to 12 months that Volkswagen has acted to strongly recommend their own ACEAbased specifications. Before that, VW of America thought it would be cheaper to use the oil that was widely available and inexpensive on the US market: the ILSAC oil used most mainstream brands. My 2003 VW Passat says in the manual "ILSAC GF-3". 2005 models no longer recommend ILSAC. They recommend an ACEA-based standard specific to VW.
So do our listeners have to choose between risking sludge or getting better fuel economy?
No, you can get sludge protection and good fuel economy at the same time. The best ACEA standard for fuel economy is called ACEA A5/B5. It also requires passing the severe 257-hour test against black sludge.
Where can I find oils meeting ACEA standards?
Mobil has recently launched a line of "Extended Performance" engine oils. The "Extended Performance" Mobil 1 is very different from the "regular" Mobil. The "Extended performance" Mobil products meet the best ACEA standards: ACEA A5/B5or ACEA A3/B4. Depending on the grade, the regular Mobil 1 meets lower ACEA specs or no ACEA specs. Read carefully the label, and look on the back of the bottle whether it says ACEA A5/B5 or ACEA A3/B4.
If that is too complicated, just buy ELF engine oils: all ELF automotive engine oils sold in the US currently meet either ACEA A5/B5 or ACEA A3/B4. You can find a list of ELF distributors at www.elfmoto.com."
Comments invited!
"What is the problem with oil sludge?
The problem is that when sludge forms in the crankcase, lumps of sludge can clog fine passages for the engine oil, thus depriving vital engine parts of lubrication and resulting in engine failure.
How does oil sludge happen?
Sludge happens when the detergent and dispersant capacity of an engine lubricant is saturated. The oil is no longer capable of handling the contamination that then accumulates as a thick black mud in the crankcase.
In recent months.. the press has reported widespread sludge problems with some models.. Saab.. Volkswagen and Chrysler. Our own callers seem to indicate that sludge problems are not limited to these brands. Why is happening?
Much engineering goes in the design of both new engines and lubricants, and the good news is that sludge is a very easy problem to prevent for the final consumer: the technology is available and not expensive at all. Sludge problems occur because for most large players in the industry, preventing sludge comes after other, shorter-term financial priorities.
- For car manufacturers, the priority is to recommend lubricants, which are inexpensive and also can improve fuel economy. This helps them avoid fines for not meeting the CAFE requirements (CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy). Most domestic and Japanese car manufacturers in the US now recommend lubricants that meet a standard called ILSAC. If you compare the most recent ILSAC GF-4 standard with European oil standards, for example, it is fair to say ILSAC is more demanding on fuel economy than it is on preventing black sludge. You’ll find that car manufacturers often do not have the same oil recommendation on the cars they sell in Europe, and there is currently no widespread sludge problem in Europe. One could conclude that oil recommendations of a global car manufacturer have more to do with the environment of each market than with objective technical requirements.
- For the oil industry, the priority is to sell large volumes of oil, so they make a priority of selling large volumes of the dominant oil category (ILSAC GF-4) over promoting more specialized oils, which would require that you explain why they are more expensive. Explaining oil technology costs money, and most oil companies do not see a return on that cost at this point.
- Finally, when sludge occurs, it usually starts as a small problem. If the inexpensive mainstream system like recommending ILSAC works for 90% of a manufacturer's cars, the priority of that manufacturer is not to change the system. The priority is to deal with the remaining 10% as cheaply as possible. First, it means to avoid a class action lawsuit. Admitting a technical problem is often a trigger for class action lawsuits. Not admitting a technical problem makes it harder to correct, though. It makes it harder to spread the information that would help the consumer avoid the problem in the first place. I guess that's why Auto radio shows are in business.
. What can our listeners do to avoid to prevent sludge in their cars?
You'l1 often hear that the two solutions to avoid sludge are :
1. Change your oil more often,
2. Use synthetic oil.
This is not wrong, but I do not think anyone who experienced sludge problem ever thought "hey, let's try how long this oil can hold and let's not change it for a while". Car manufacturers, oil companies and journalists have always recommended to "change your oil often", but sludge problems have appeared in the past five years, so repeating "change your oil" has not proven to be a solution. Also, in Europe, Toyota, VW or Chrysler recommend oil change intervals of at least 7,500 miles or more and they do not have sludge problems there.
Recommending synthetic is a better way to go, but for the past decade, the word "synthetic" has gaind recognition to sell more expensive lubricants. The result is that several cheap and not-so good synthetics have appeared on the market. An oil company does not have to perform any engine test on its product to label it "synthetic". For example, liquid plastic could be labeled "synthetic" and it would not help sludge at all. The only way to test an oil against sludge is to perform engine tests.
The only independent organization that performs serious tests on engine oils against black sludge is called ACEA. The test is called the Mercedes 111 black sludge test, and you can find its description on the following website: http://www.swri.edu/4org/d08/global...ldg/default.htm
What is ACEA?
That's A-C-E-A like in the word PAN-A-C-E-A. ACEA is the association of car manufacturers in Europe. GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler are all members of ACEA, along with 10 other car and truck manufacturers.
You find more and more engine oils that meet ACEA on the US market. One reason is that German manufacturers such as VW, Audi or Mercedes are now demanding oils that meet all the highest ACEA standards for their warranty. Using a mainstream ILSAC oil (recommended for domestic and Japanese cars) in a new German car will probably void your warranty.
Wait a minute. Volkswagen had sludge problems too. The ACEA standard did not help much for them either.
They did not use it at the time. Only in the past 6 to 12 months that Volkswagen has acted to strongly recommend their own ACEAbased specifications. Before that, VW of America thought it would be cheaper to use the oil that was widely available and inexpensive on the US market: the ILSAC oil used most mainstream brands. My 2003 VW Passat says in the manual "ILSAC GF-3". 2005 models no longer recommend ILSAC. They recommend an ACEA-based standard specific to VW.
So do our listeners have to choose between risking sludge or getting better fuel economy?
No, you can get sludge protection and good fuel economy at the same time. The best ACEA standard for fuel economy is called ACEA A5/B5. It also requires passing the severe 257-hour test against black sludge.
Where can I find oils meeting ACEA standards?
Mobil has recently launched a line of "Extended Performance" engine oils. The "Extended Performance" Mobil 1 is very different from the "regular" Mobil. The "Extended performance" Mobil products meet the best ACEA standards: ACEA A5/B5or ACEA A3/B4. Depending on the grade, the regular Mobil 1 meets lower ACEA specs or no ACEA specs. Read carefully the label, and look on the back of the bottle whether it says ACEA A5/B5 or ACEA A3/B4.
If that is too complicated, just buy ELF engine oils: all ELF automotive engine oils sold in the US currently meet either ACEA A5/B5 or ACEA A3/B4. You can find a list of ELF distributors at www.elfmoto.com."
Comments invited!
I have used M1 0w-40 in my Skoda 1.8T for about 80000 miles.(same engine as you) The engine makes a lot of noise, but performance is very good. So is fuel economy. I had the oil (3K OCI) analysed by Blackstone Labs at 75k and the wear levels were "great". My TBN was 8.3.
A very interesting quote regarding sludge in a turbo Passat engine:
"In spite of the fact that this car was well maintained (synthetic oil changes every 3000 miles), it had developed sludging in the oil pickup, which starved the timing chain tensioner. Two thousand dollars and some change later it seems to be okay."
Complete article:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Ent...echanics_Tale_VW_Heal_Thyself.S281.A9081.html
Wonder what brand of synthetic was used
"In spite of the fact that this car was well maintained (synthetic oil changes every 3000 miles), it had developed sludging in the oil pickup, which starved the timing chain tensioner. Two thousand dollars and some change later it seems to be okay."
Complete article:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Ent...echanics_Tale_VW_Heal_Thyself.S281.A9081.html
Wonder what brand of synthetic was used
I have a A4 1.8T with 102K miles, chipped and running on
mobil 1 since the first oil change. i have seen the valve cover off when i was getting the seals replaced due to leaks. the head looks as clean as can be.. everything original of course and it goes 5K between changes. in addition to the extra quart of oil for the transverse engine VWs there is also the after run turbo coolant pump which they inexplicably deleted from the A4/passat.. that's criminal. oh well now they have to buy new engines and suffer bad publicity.. having to idle cool down sucks.
mobil 1 since the first oil change. i have seen the valve cover off when i was getting the seals replaced due to leaks. the head looks as clean as can be.. everything original of course and it goes 5K between changes. in addition to the extra quart of oil for the transverse engine VWs there is also the after run turbo coolant pump which they inexplicably deleted from the A4/passat.. that's criminal. oh well now they have to buy new engines and suffer bad publicity.. having to idle cool down sucks.
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