Oil filter crush temperature, with no bypass.

[oil pan 4]

Say you work with r tards and an oil filter is just an oil filter to them.
The correct oil filters have a bypass. Replacements ordered and put into service did not. The wrong part number was used or someone found a no bypass hydraulic filter that happens to fit and used it.
What might the filter implosion temperature be with 15w40 oil assuming nice fresh oil and like new filter?
The engine block may or may not contain a filter bypass somewhere all I know is I definitely can not see a filter bypass looking up into the filter to engine block adaptor.

 

[FreedomOne]

What vehicle?

 

[Shel_B]

Say you work with r tards and an oil filter is just an oil filter to them.
The correct oil filters have a bypass. Replacements ordered and put into service did not. The wrong part number was used or someone found a no bypass hydraulic filter that happens to fit and used it.
What might the filter implosion temperature be with 15w40 oil assuming nice fresh oil and like new filter?
The engine block may or may not contain a filter bypass somewhere all I know is I definitely can not see a filter bypass looking up into the filter to engine block adaptor.

What a sad comment ... and what a sad commentary and poor reflection on yourself. One might wonder what euphemistic phrase could be used to describe you.

 

[oil pan 4]

What vehicle?

It's not a vehicle it's a 16 liter diesel engine.

 

[oil pan 4]

What a sad comment ... and what a sad commentary and poor reflection on yourself. One might wonder what euphemistic phrase could be used to describe you.

No argument here. I'm just trying to be the highest functioning one.

 

[Kira]

1) OP: Are you saying you caught a mistake [wrong filter used] upon doing an oil change?
Good for you and the machines you tend. Make a suitable note in the logbook too.
Mistakes happen....constraints may have required use of an incorrect filter...mislabeled part

2) "Filter Implosion Temperature" is new to me. Details, please. See post #2.

3) Avoid the use of run-on sentences as they're harder to read.

 

[Passport1]

it's a 16 liter diesel engine.

Is it
an Abrams tank engine
caterpillar earth mover engine
stationary power generator
diesel locomotive engine or
a ship's engine?

 

[SC Maintenance]

I don't see how temperature plays into this. Would most likely oil filter fails from too much pressure (full oil filter or cold oil at whatever PSI across the area of the filter) or b) engine fails from oil starvation - or hopefully shuts down on low oil pressure first.

Hot oil is likely your friend with a plugged filter and no bypass - no?

 

[LvR]

Say you work with r tards and an oil filter is just an oil filter to them.
The correct oil filters have a bypass. Replacements ordered and put into service did not. The wrong part number was used or someone found a no bypass hydraulic filter that happens to fit and used it.
What might the filter implosion temperature be with 15w40 oil assuming nice fresh oil and like new filter?
The engine block may or may not contain a filter bypass somewhere all I know is I definitely can not see a filter bypass looking up into the filter to engine block adaptor.

Imposion .................. on a working engine.............. as in filtering dirty oil?

How exactly do you see THAT happen irrespective of temperature and oil used

 

[thastinger]

Say you work with r tards and an oil filter is just an oil filter to them.
The correct oil filters have a bypass. Replacements ordered and put into service did not. The wrong part number was used or someone found a no bypass hydraulic filter that happens to fit and used it.
What might the filter implosion temperature be with 15w40 oil assuming nice fresh oil and like new filter?
The engine block may or may not contain a filter bypass somewhere all I know is I definitely can not see a filter bypass looking up into the filter to engine block adaptor.

Explosion? Like the gasket blew out? I would think the gasket would blow long before the filter housing would?

 

[twX]

What might the filter implosion temperature be with 15w40 oil assuming nice fresh oil and like new filter?
The engine block may or may not contain a filter bypass somewhere all I know is I definitely can not see a filter bypass looking up into the filter to engine block adaptor.

Low-pressure hydraulic filters from Donaldson usually have a filter collapse rating of 100 psi. On a cold start, most of the engine's oil pressure could be dropped across the filter for some time. If the engine is capable of producing an oil pressure of much higher than 100 psi with cold oil, I'd say there would be risk of filter collapse if there's no bypass valve.

Here's a chart showing the pressure drop across a filter on a 11L Cummins heavy duty diesel engine after a cold start at -15°C with several 15w40 oils. The filter bypass pressure is 85 psi. Pressure at the oil pump outlet is only 110-120 psi during this test, so most of that pressure can be dropped across the filter. If the filter in this test had no bypass valve, the filter dP likely would have exceeded 100 psi for a long time in the case of Oil B. It briefly exceeded 100 psi for all of the oils even with the bypass valve, though a lower bypass setting should prevent this.

Filter collapse isn't the only concern. Oil pressure could end up being much lower after a cold start if the filter has no bypass. This could be the case even for relatively warm starts, but for a much briefer period.

 

[oil pan 4]

1) OP: Are you saying you caught a mistake [wrong filter used] upon doing an oil change?
Good for you and the machines you tend. Make a suitable note in the logbook too.
Mistakes happen....constraints may have required use of an incorrect filter...mislabeled part

2) "Filter Implosion Temperature" is new to me. Details, please. See post #2.

3) Avoid the use of run-on sentences as they're harder to read.

I caught it after it already happened because I was tasked with looking up a suitable replacement they use a 1.125'' 16tpi filter with about a 4.25 inch wide o-ring. Someone else thought they found a suitable replacement and just ordered it and ran it.
The supplier sent the right filters in the right boxs. Someone on my end just assumed a filter is a filter as long as it fits.
If a filter builds up too much differential pressure it will crush. The function of a filter bypass simply prevents this from happening for one reason or another.
It is believed on bitog that a clean filter and clean oil may bypass the filter when cold. Which oil and how cold, no one really knows.

 

[LvR]

I caught it after it already happened because I was tasked with looking up a suitable replacement they use a 1.125'' 16tpi filter with about a 4.25 inch wide o-ring. Someone else thought they found a suitable replacement and just ordered it and ran it.
The supplier sent the right filters in the right boxs. Someone on my end just assumed a filter is a filter as long as it fits.
If a filter builds up too much differential pressure it will crush. The function of a filter bypass simply prevents this from happening for one reason or another.
It is believed on bitog that a clean filter and clean oil may bypass the filter when cold. Which oil and how cold, no one really knows.

"Crush"...............?

Again please explain that mechanism.

Or do you have an application where the oil filter is located before the pump? ..............if so pictured and models please or its simply not true.

 

[oil pan 4]

Explosion? Like the gasket blew out? I would think the gasket would blow long before the filter housing would?

Not quite. The oil pump on an engine has a pressure relief. That pressure relief appears to be set about 80psi on this engine. So the filter will never see more than 80psi. If the filter develops anywhere near 80psi pressure drop across it, bad things will happen to the filter and no oil pressure to the rest of the engine is bad for it. The bypass on filters like what this healthy sized diesel engine uses appears to be in the 20 to 30psid range. If it has a bypass.

 

[oil pan 4]

"Crush"...............?

Again please explain that mechanism.

Or do you have an application where the oil filter is located before the pump? ..............if so pictured and models please or its simply not true.

See post 11.

 

[oil pan 4]

Low-pressure hydraulic filters from Donaldson usually have a filter collapse rating of 100 psi. On a cold start, most of the engine's oil pressure could be dropped across the filter for some time. If the engine is capable of producing an oil pressure of much higher than 100 psi with cold oil, I'd say there would be risk of filter collapse if there's no bypass valve.

Here's a chart showing the pressure drop across a filter on a 11L Cummins heavy duty diesel engine after a cold start at -15°C with several 15w40 oils. The filter bypass pressure is 85 psi. Pressure at the oil pump outlet is only 110-120 psi during this test, so most of that pressure can be dropped across the filter. If the filter in this test had no bypass valve, the filter dP likely would have exceeded 100 psi for a long time in the case of Oil B. It briefly exceeded 100 psi for all of the oils even with the bypass valve, though a lower bypass setting should prevent this.

Filter collapse isn't the only concern. Oil pressure could end up being much lower after a cold start if the filter has no bypass. This could be the case even for relatively warm starts, but for a much briefer period.

View attachment 236379

Thanks a lot. I'll tell them don't run them below freezing. Since this is a gigantic air conditioner, it really shouldn't be a problem.
I find that test absolutely fascinating.
85psid is an incredible amount of pressure across a filter.
Hopefully the correct filters will come soon or get my hands on an engine manual and confirm the existence of a built-in bypass.
Now I'm curious what the bypass on the factory filter that I cut open is. All I can tell for sure is it's a lot.
I would be willing to bet "oil b" is what we use, only the cheapest 15w40 known to man will due.
Maybe those German engineers selected the oil pressure for this engine based on a number that "wouldn't crush the filter". They all run about 80psi on the gauge, so maybe the pump pressure relief is seeing 90psi or so.

 

[oil pan 4]

it's a 16 liter diesel engine.

Is it
an Abrams tank engine
caterpillar earth mover engine
stationary power generator
diesel locomotive engine or
a ship's engine?

It's a deutz engine in a fairly large air conditioner unit. I've been told they get used as ship engines too.

 

[Astro14]

Why would the filter implode?

I’ve seen filters explode, when the casing is blown off the base plate, by a cold start with thick oil, but implode?

How would it implode?

 

[twX]

Thanks a lot. I'll tell them don't run them below freezing.

There's also the risk of oil starvation if the filter clogs. It really isn't the best idea to use those filters even in warmer weather, but they are used, I'd replace them more frequently to reduce the risk of clogging.

 

[MolaKule]

@oil pan 4
In most filters the flow is from the outer (radial) input ports to the inside threaded (outlet) port. How can you have a "crushing" event unless the differential pressure somehow occurs in a direction opposite to the outer port wrt to the central threaded output port?

One would have to have a high sucking (negative) pressure at the output (threaded) port with respect to the outer radial ports to have a crushing/implosion event.

In most lubricant system designs this system is open or partially open to the atmosphere. So how could this occur?