Oil color ?

[UncleDave]

I've got diesels to (see sig line) , oil's always black. OP didnt say anything about diesels though did he?

From what Ive seen OTR truck oil and diesel oil is always black and wouldn't make a determination if its servicable based on it being black - but thats a long way from agreeing color means "nothing".

You are talking about dark oil - what about still gold oil?
In a scenario where you know nothing else - would you dump oil so clean its hard to see on the stick?

Jim fitch believes it makes sense to look at oil and observe how it changes color over time.

Why would we believe he is wrong and you are right?

Jim Fitch> You (or me for that matter)

UD

 

[Zaedock]

The OP didn't say anything about gassers either, so what's your point? BTW, I saw your sig line, hence my comparison.
Edit - we are in the gasser forum, so I'll give you that.

The OP's question asks if you can tell the performance of an oil by looking at it's color. I'll stick with my answer that oil color means nothing in this regard.


BTW, in a scenario where I know nothing else, if I saw clean oil on a dip stick and didn't know when or where it was changed, you bet your

I would change it

 

[4WD]

Long reply that means nothing

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Zaedock
The OP didn't say anything about gassers either, so what's your point? BTW, I saw your sig line, hence my comparison.
Edit - we are in the gasser forum, so I'll give you that.

The OP's question asks if you can tell the performance of an oil by looking at it's color. I'll stick with my answer that oil color means nothing in this regard.


BTW, in a scenario where I know nothing else, if I saw clean oil on a dip stick and didn't know when or where it was changed, you bet your

I would change it


Agreed "performance" of oil cannot be determined by looking at it.

The foremost industry expert believes color has plenty of meaning especially observing change over time.

If color is meaningless then why trust oil in a new container from the store?



UD

 

[bbhero]

I agree UD ^^^^^^↑↑

Changes over time can actually having meaning in a port injection gasoline motor...

Having oil start to look like chocolate milk is indicative of coolant mixed in and a serious problem...


Oil that is black and super nasty appearing may well still be serviceable.. no way to know for sure except performing a UOA.

Blackest oil I ever had in my Nissan Sentra which had 10k miles on it... Typically I did 4,500 mile runs prior to that.. After 4,500 miles it was just quite brown in color. Interestingly the car's motor gave out at 241k miles due to a broken timing chain... I got the car with 118k miles 5 years before that. I hoped that my shorter runs on average helped the car last a bit longer. No way of knowing for sure... Also of note I never touched the transmission fluid in the Sentra.. it was running just fine. In fact I saw it going down the road a couple of months after I gave it to my friend Danny. He pulled the motor and found the broken timing chain... Danny had his salvage yard where he got another motor from another Nissan Sentra and put it in my old car... I stopped by Danny's and was like what the heck man laughing at him.. He told me the deal and I told him I was glad he fixed it up for his daughter.

Though on my current Nissan Altima VQ with 305,400 miles.... Running perfectly... I just got another scan tool with live data and it's doing great. Hopefully I will get even a fair amount more miles going forward.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
I've got diesels to (see sig line) , oil's always black. OP didnt say anything about diesels though did he?

From what Ive seen OTR truck oil and diesel oil is always black and wouldn't make a determination if its servicable based on it being black - but thats a long way from agreeing color means "nothing".

You are talking about dark oil - what about still gold oil?
In a scenario where you know nothing else - would you dump oil so clean its hard to see on the stick?

Jim fitch believes it makes sense to look at oil and observe how it changes color over time.

Why would we believe he is wrong and you are right?

Jim Fitch> You (or me for that matter)

UD



I agree UD


Here's why...

Top one... Garbage garbage oil right out of the container....

Second glass.... Real oil Valvoline White bottle 5w30

 

[mahanddeem]

Originally Posted by bbhero
I agree UD ^^^^^^↑↑
I just got another scan tool with live data and it's doing great. Hopefully I will get even a fair amount more miles going forward.


What live data are you logging to know it's doing great?

 

[bbhero]

Ahh fuels trims... Long and short term.... No misfires at all anywhere... In all 6 cylinders...

Temps right.... O2 sensors all right both banks...

LAMBda perfect...

Ignition advance is good...

Stuff like this .... + More

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by bbhero


... Garbage garbage oil right out of the container...

are you sure that's not a left-over Pepsi from one of your old NASCAR race BBQs?

 

[bbhero]

I know right ...

It does look like that doesn't it??

And seriously... It has the viscosity of old Pepsi too...

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by UncleDave


The foremost industry expert believes color has plenty of meaning especially observing change over time.



LOL, I'll make sure to tell Jim the next time I see him at one of the MARTS or wherever we cross paths next how highly he is regarded.

No disrespect but he is nowhere near worthy of that title and honestly "got" the bulk of what he knows from other people ( that's a different story altogether but widely known in lube circles for those who have been there since the beginning of what we know today as lubrication as a specialty and discipline)

That being said, his published work on color changing, blotters and such ( when read correctly and in detail and in context) should be required reading for any lubrication professional.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by bbhero
I know right ...

It does look like that doesn't it??

And seriously... It has the viscosity of old Pepsi too...


PQIA thumped X press pro pretty hard, yup garbage right from the spout.

I picked up a 5 er at wal mart and when I got home I opened it up and it was clear it was a return with old oil in it - it was dark and I could smell fuel in it.

I took a bath on it because of the time before I caught it.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by UncleDave


The foremost industry expert believes color has plenty of meaning especially observing change over time.



LOL, I'll make sure to tell Jim the next time I see him at one of the MARTS or wherever we cross paths next how highly he is regarded.

No disrespect but he is nowhere near worthy of that title and honestly "got" the bulk of what he knows from other people ( that's a different story altogether but widely known in lube circles for those who have been there since the beginning of what we know today as lubrication as a specialty and discipline)

That being said, his published work on color changing, blotters and such ( when read correctly and in detail and in context) should be required reading for any lubrication professional.



Jims got a resume surpassing anyone Ive seen on the topic, id be curious who bests him on that front.

I'm certain lots of knowledge did come from others and was absorbed and recorded by Jim.

There is so much great free information to be had from that site and here is really pretty incredible.

best sir!

UD

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by UncleDave



Jims got a resume surpassing anyone Ive seen on the topic, id be curious who bests him on that front.

I'm certain lots of knowledge did come from others and was absorbed and recorded by Jim.

There is so much great free information to be had from that site and here is really pretty incredible.

best sir!

UD


Out of professional respect to both him (He has done a lot, nobody disputes that) and you, I will not address this point any further but please realize that he is neither the first, the only or the foremost and honestly given the diversity and specialization of tribology as a whole and all the tenets involved- I don't believe there is a single individual who has "done it all" or stands out more than others in their related fields on the subject.

 

[UncleDave]

I realize there are a litany of qualified people on the subject. Where Jim is in the pecking order I'll leave to his industry peers to argue.

What is clear to me is on the topic of color, Jim believes its relevant and publishes why he believes so. Not only color, but smell and texture.

Until I see one of his peers publish their reasoning why its not (been looking for that and never found one) - I'll stick with Jim on the topic.



UD

 

[4WD]

I realize there are a litany of qualified people on the subject. Where Jim is in the pecking order I'll leave to his industry peers to argue.
What is clear to me is on the topic of color, Jim believes its relevant and publishes why he believes so. Not only color, but smell and texture.
Until I see one of his peers publish their reasoning why its not (been looking for that and never found one) - I'll stick with Jim on the topic.
UD

"Appearance" does work better than "color" … the severe oxidation will not only blacken but it appears thixotropic, dull in finish, cohesive etc … and mine did smell strongly of gasoline … And so much for dilution always thinning … first observation was a corn dog dipstick!

 

[SWS]

Good discussion & viewpoints. I don't think this will ever be 'resolved', for good reason.

One camp believes that the color / appearance, feel / thickness, smell, etc -vs- new oil is significant.
As mentioned previously, the extreme/best examples are visually detecting antifreeze or fuel in the oil.
Overall, this camp wants the best care for their drivetrain, and oil is key to that.
That's why they are members of this site.
Overall, cost is secondary, as are potential oil-waste environmental concerns. However, the desire
to keep their vehicle in good condition & last a long time is ultimately the low-cost & environmentally
friendly strategy.
This camp believes that UOA is certainly useful, but UOA simply verifies judgments already made by color, feel, & smell...

Others who look for maximum oil service / long-life / low purchase price of oil with healthy concern for
waste & low environmental impact.
That's why they are members of this site.
This camp will naturally discount as trivial the 'mere appearance' of the oil, and to their credit will look for
measurable, actual performance indices (e.g. UOA), but not to the point of ignoring a sudden change such as antifreeze
contamination.
This camp looks to take the oil to near complete depletion on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis.

Both camps have their valid points, everyone wants to do the right thing, everyone is interested, and maybe everyone is slightly crazy,
but we can agree that everyone is taking very good care of their vehicles!

 

[UncleDave]

The two types aren't always mutually exclusive, but eyes and tests are mere tools in the toolbox to be called on for use, Often using both.

I've spent lots of money on commercial analysis to determine condemnation points of daily run equipment like diesel gensets.

I've posted some of that here. I learned I can easily add 100 hours to the OCI schedule in my use profile - an excellent ROI on the spend.

I still use my eyes, nose and fingers when presented with a machine to analyze as the more info you have the more the details add up to tell a story of that machine.

I don't need a test to tell me transmission fluid is burned my nose tells me - sure I'll run the test, but doing that prior already told me that Ill find burned fluid.

A lifetime of associating color, smell, secure and viscosity WITH a test in hand to confirm or deny what you are seeing is a good teacher indeed.


UD

 

[SWS]

Well said!