Oil and Engine Life

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Cary the sludge problem in the Toyota V6 was not a oil problem it was a engine design problem that Toyota corrected.

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Well, I sorta agree with that. I'd say that oil is one of the four horsemen of Toyota Sludge Apocalypse: 1) hot heads, 2) marginal CC ventilation, 3) slack maintenance, and 4) vulnerable dino oils. Any three or less alone, no problem. Put them all on the trail together and look out. . .

 

[427Z06]

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Originally posted by Patman:
With regards to the Corvettes, from what I recall, the problem was with the ZR-1 version introduced for the 1990 model year. That car used the LT5 motor, which had four cams and was a Lotus and GM designed motor, built by Mercury Marine. Under extremely cold conditions they had some camshaft failures in early testing. The regular Corvettes did not get synthetic oil until 1992. This was the first year for the LT1 engine, and GM decided not to use an oil cooler, so that is why they came factory filled with synthetic oil.

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If my memory serves me, this is what I recall too.

 

[427Z06]

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Originally posted by FowVay:

I bought a 1984 Toyota Supra with the 5MGE engine which was their DOHC in-line 6 cylinder that had the tall cam towers. The cam lobes were AWOL on this thing. The previous owner had receipts for every oil change and she did it per the owners manual but at 100,000 miles it just had too much wear. The manual recommended 10,000 mile drain intervals on 10W-40 oil at the time. She had taken it to a private garage in her neighborhood.

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Yep. I have an '89 with the 7M-GE I bought new. 5K severe schedule, 10K normal schedule with dino 10w40. And the severe schedule requirements were not as stringent as you would imagine. Although it sucked oil like a pig so you were always adding oil during the interval. I, of course, look at that and decided to ignore it and began doing 5K intervals with synthetics. And it's "look Ma, no camshaft wear" 15 years later.

 

[427Z06]

Hey FowVay and Pitbull. Just noticed your Military Veteran icons. I'm a 10 year veteran of the AF. How do I get one of those neat icons next to my name?

 

[rugerman1]

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
Hey FowVay and Pitbull. Just noticed your Military Veteran icons. I'm a 10 year veteran of the AF. How do I get one of those neat icons next to my name?

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[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Cary the sludge problem in the Toyota V6 was not a oil problem it was a engine design problem that Toyota corrected.

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Well, I sorta agree with that. I'd say that oil is one of the four horsemen of Toyota Sludge Apocalypse: 1) hot heads, 2) marginal CC ventilation, 3) slack maintenance, and 4) vulnerable dino oils. Any three or less alone, no problem. Put them all on the trail together and look out. . .

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I think that is a good way to describe the Toyota problem. It is funny how long a screw-up like that will stay in peoples minds. I have a mechanic friend that thinks all Toyota V6 engines are a problem.

 

[buster]

I think the benefits of a good synthetic show up later in the cars life. My car has 160k + miles on it. While it is a Toyota and will last a long time regardless, my car runs better then EVER. In fact, I think my car runs better then many new ones. I test drove a new one and in terms of engine power, my car hasn't missed a step. I don't plan on keeping it much longer, but I'm glad that at 160k miles, I have a car that runs like this. I think this is where the extra $ for a good synthetic can be worth it. Change the oil at 6-8k miles.

 

[427Z06]

widman, what is SAE 40 CC? And what kind of Esso oil was that, bulk dino? Is it posssible the quality of oil sold in Bolivia is different than that sold in U.S./Canada? (I have our legal system in the back of my mind here.)

 

[Gene K]

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
widman, what is SAE 40 CC? And what kind of Esso oil was that, bulk dino? Is it posssible the quality of oil sold in Bolivia is different than that sold in U.S./Canada? (I have our legal system in the back of my mind here.)

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I am not Widman but I think it is a straight SAE 40 Non-Detergent Oil.

Gene

 

[widman]

I've seen engines blow for various reasons, the most common being downshifting from 5th to 2nd at 50 to 60 mph.
But I've seen 11 engines die because they used SAE 40 CC. Even with only 200 hours between changes, the sludge filled the crankshafts and the bearings failed.
Right now I am in the process of taking over the Nissan account because they are convinced that the Esso product was responsible for 3 engine failures.
For the most part, the better oils will just reduce wear and add time between changes. That reduced wear may be the difference between 400,000 miles and 500,000 miles.
The cheaper oils may shear down and then thicken up. I've also got dozens of analisis to show that.

 

[Blue636]

So, judging from all the responses it's safe to say an engine can safely make it well over 150k miles on regular oil changes with mineral oil? Assuming the engine design is decent, of course....

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Blue636:
So, judging from all the responses it's safe to say an engine can safely make it well over 150k miles on regular oil changes with mineral oil? Assuming the engine design is decent, of course....

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Are you wanting the engine to just be running? Or would you like the engine to be running effeciently within spec for emissions and performance??

That is the real question you should be asking. I've seen engine that still run(barely) that are severly sludged, burning oil, and running rough, but they are running. Is that what you want at 150,000 miles?

Or would you prefer an engine that burns no oil, still passes emissions, has full compression in all pistions and still makes the same power it did as new??

For my vehicles it will be synthetics and by-pass filtration. (any brand will do

)

 

[Blue636]

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Originally posted by msparks:
That is the real question you should be asking. I've seen engine that still run(barely) that are severly sludged, burning oil, and running rough, but they are running. Is that what you want at 150,000 miles?

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So, you mean to tell me that if I use even a high quality and reputable mineral oil, on a good engine, at regular 3,000 OCI, I'm almost guaranteed to see something like this?

 

[crashz]

A high quality mineral oil on regular changes of 3000 - 5000 miles will yeild long life on a good running engine. This is assuming that you contiue to keep the car in good shape, have the cooling system serviced, PCV valve cleaned/changed, and don't drive it to extremes.

If you tow heavy loads, auto-cross, drive like a criminal, or if you have an emissions or cooling systme failure, the synthetics offer you addtional protection. The longer drain intervals of synthetics are also a big selling point.

But any newer car using any SL rated oil (or better) should see 200K without being a smoke billowing slug. Sure, you may have a little varnish and sludge build up, but its nothing compared to the average body damage at 200K and severe rust.

 

[slalom44]

Originally posted by Blue636:

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So, you mean to tell me that if I use even a high quality and reputable mineral oil, on a good engine, at regular 3,000 OCI, I'm almost guaranteed to see something like this?

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Yep. I've got 211,000 miles on my '95 Corolla, and it's seen primarily SuperTech 5W30 and 10W30 with OCIs at just over 3000 miles. I took the head cover off a few months ago (at 205,000 miles) to change the timing belt, and found the engine to be really clean - and I've never used any additives or flushes.

 

[csandste]

Since SJ and SL SuperTech were from two different suppliers and since the 5w30 has a far different chemistry (with moly) than the 10w30, you've also punctured the myth that sticking to a single oil supplier (and from extension, not mixing) has critical benefit. Companies like Pennzoil and Quaker State would not be putting these 250-300K mileage guarantees for oil related engine failures unless such failures were very, very rare.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Blue636:
So, you mean to tell me that if I use even a high quality and reputable mineral oil, on a good engine, at regular 3,000 OCI, I'm almost guaranteed to see something like this?

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Well actually there are no guarantees no matter what oil/filter/gas/interval/or air you put in your tires for that matter.

Just with a syn it's less likely, do engines wear out even with syns? Yup, or you wouldn't have to replace them.