OCI For Low Mileage Use

[jayg]

3-4 years easily on a quality synth for the S2000.

I'm 4 years in on 44 year conventional oil in my 240Z. As long as it gets up temp to burn off moisture, no need to change yearly.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: jayg
3-4 years easily on a quality synth for the S2000.

I'm 4 years in on 44 year conventional oil in my 240Z. As long as it gets up temp to burn off moisture, no need to change yearly.


Would sure like to see a UOA from that, it would really be illuminating --

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: jayg
3-4 years easily on a quality synth for the S2000.

I'm 4 years in on 44 year conventional oil in my 240Z. As long as it gets up temp to burn off moisture, no need to change yearly.


Would sure like to see a UOA from that, it would really be illuminating --


When it's time, I'll post it up.

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
To be conservative, you could just change it at 6000 miles - so 4 years. I own the Suburban that did the 5 yr OCI and I will probably go longer next time if the mileage continues to stay low. I think the warming the oil up every time is way overrated. My Suburban saw many starts where it only ran a minute or two while it was moved out of the garage so I could change the oil on something else. Most people change their oil way too often on these limited use cars - even at a 4 year, 6000 mile OCI, I'd double stint the filter. Many people just love to change oil and justify it with the "cheap insurance" dogma. I don't enjoy it and just do what's necessary - so far with no ill consequences. I feel keeping your oil toppd off is by far the most important thing you can do.

Totally agree....Doing what is necessary....not what makes you feel good....is my belief as well.

Most of our oils are so superior, compared to years ago (especially synthetics)....to extend OCI's dramatically.

 

[Injured_Again]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Interesting info re the oil temps vs. miles. Thanks!


I was quoting their experiences from memory since it was somewhat similar to my own 5.7L experience. Wish I could go back and find that but I don't even recall who the poster was...though it was someone who posts frequently and is very well thought of this forum. It must have been part of a "warming up the car" thread.


I've got a 2011 Corvette that sees pretty few miles (only 3753 in all of 2016). I've since added a high capacity oil cooler for track work, but even when it was stock, a cold startup during the winter would see all fluids at about 50 degrees. One quarter mile of driving got me out of our neighborhood, at which time coolant temps were around 120 F. and oil temps were about 60 degrees F. Another mile away is the freeway onramp, and by that time coolant temps are 170-180 degrees F. but the oil temps are still only around 70 degrees F. It takes a good 10-12 miles of freeway driving to get oil temps to 150 degrees F., the lowest at which I'll go full throttle, and probably another 5-10 miles to get it up to a stabilized temp of around 210 degrees F.

With the oil cooler in place, if the temps are around freezing, it will never get to even 160 degrees F. during freeway driving. City driving with lower airflow will eventually get the oil up to 210 degrees after about a half hour or so.

It doesn't worry me a whole lot. Even at 160 degrees, any moisture is going to evaporate. It won't evaporate as fast as if it were 210 degrees F. but it will happen.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
With the oil cooler in place, if the temps are around freezing, it will never get to even 160 degrees F. during freeway driving. City driving with lower airflow will eventually get the oil up to 210 degrees after about a half hour or so.

It doesn't worry me a whole lot. Even at 160 degrees, any moisture is going to evaporate. It won't evaporate as fast as if it were 210 degrees F. but it will happen.


Unless the oil temp gets to 212 deg F routinely, some of that water will mix with sulfur compounds and form acids. It's quite possible that 160 deg F is not enough oil temp to fully activate the additive package. From recent things I've read, 10-20 min at reasonable driven RPM should be enough time to warmup most engines at typical ambient temps of 25 deg F and higher.

 

[climhazzard]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
With the oil cooler in place, if the temps are around freezing, it will never get to even 160 degrees F. during freeway driving. City driving with lower airflow will eventually get the oil up to 210 degrees after about a half hour or so.

It doesn't worry me a whole lot. Even at 160 degrees, any moisture is going to evaporate. It won't evaporate as fast as if it were 210 degrees F. but it will happen.


Unless the oil temp gets to 212 deg F routinely, some of that water will mix with sulfur compounds and form acids. It's quite possible that 160 deg F is not enough oil temp to fully activate the additive package. From recent things I've read, 10-20 min at reasonable driven RPM should be enough time to warmup most engines at typical ambient temps of 25 deg F and higher.


I'm not sure the S2000 hits 212 during regular driving in moderate temperatures. I could definitely be wrong though. Regardless, isn't the point of additives to neutralize acids? Hence with a decent synthetic oil, or for that matter a dino oil, wouldn't it mitigate that concern?

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: climhazzard
I'm not sure the S2000 hits 212 during regular driving in moderate temperatures. I could definitely be wrong though. Regardless, isn't the point of additives to neutralize acids? Hence with a decent synthetic oil, or for that matter a dino oil, wouldn't it mitigate that concern?


Yes, they do that....once they reach the optimum temperature for the add pack to perform all its functions. At 160 degF I don't think the add pack is at full strength. Certainly over 180 deg F there should be no concern.

 

[Ducked]

To the OP (I mis-replied and dunno how to fix it)

Have a look at the "Economy benefits of increasing (starting) oil temp" discussion and presentation in the "Interesting Articles" forum.

The last graphic in the presentation suggests that, in normal non-motorway operation, oil doesn't get above 100C, and it needs to get above that boiling point to not accumulate water.

I thought (my) oil did get above 100C, but I don't have any data, and on reflection I'd guess it probably doesn't very often.

The discussion also has some data from a BMW owner (perhaps that referred to above), which, if I'm translating the F-ing (where F equals Fahrenheit) silly units correctly, says the oil gets to about 170C. That'll be fine, but the owner acknowledges that this is a high performance vehicle and probably isn't typical.

 

[Injured_Again]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: climhazzard
I'm not sure the S2000 hits 212 during regular driving in moderate temperatures. I could definitely be wrong though. Regardless, isn't the point of additives to neutralize acids? Hence with a decent synthetic oil, or for that matter a dino oil, wouldn't it mitigate that concern?


Yes, they do that....once they reach the optimum temperature for the add pack to perform all its functions. At 160 degF I don't think the add pack is at full strength. Certainly over 180 deg F there should be no concern.


I have no idea what temperature it takes for an additive pack to be at full effectiveness. I have used, for years, the advice that 150 degrees F. is sufficient temperature to go full throttle and to redline.

Water heated to 160 degrees will evaporate. You can see that happening in a pot of water before it boils, and you can even see how much water vapor comes out of a pot of oil if you put too much frozen stuff in there and it drops below the boiling point of water. So I guess since I'm changing the oil yearly at a minimum, I've got no qualms about the oil only getting to 160 degrees F.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again


Water heated to 160 degrees will evaporate.... You can see that happening in a pot of water before it boils, and you can even see how much water vapor comes out of a pot of oil if you put too much frozen stuff in there and it drops below the boiling point of water. So I guess since I'm changing the oil yearly at a minimum, I've got no qualms about the oil only getting to 160 degrees F.


To the extent that I'd thought about this at all, that was my first thought (though of course not in those units), and it is of course true.

Water heated to 5C (I don't care what that is in Fahrenheit) will evaporate too.

But look at it the other way around, as "Water cooled below 100C will condense" which is AT LEAST as true, and it doesn't look so good, and that might be the more appropriate way to look at it.

The engine is continuously supplying more water while it is running, so the equilibrium water content doesn't seem likely to be zero.

Below 100C water seems likely to accumulate. I THINK 160F is about 70C. Not so hot.

 

[climhazzard]

Are most engine's oil getting above 100C in regular driving conditions? Seems on the hot side, and that moisture would be a problem even outside the context of limited use.

By the way, not sure if this matters, but I found out that the S2000 has an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger, which apparently acts as an oil warmer as well as cooler.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Interesting info re the oil temps vs. miles. Thanks!


I was quoting their experiences from memory since it was somewhat similar to my own 5.7L experience. Wish I could go back and find that but I don't even recall who the poster was...though it was someone who posts frequently and is very well thought of this forum. It must have been part of a "warming up the car" thread.


I've got a 2011 Corvette that sees pretty few miles (only 3753 in all of 2016). I've since added a high capacity oil cooler for track work, but even when it was stock, a cold startup during the winter would see all fluids at about 50 degrees. One quarter mile of driving got me out of our neighborhood, at which time coolant temps were around 120 F. and oil temps were about 60 degrees F. Another mile away is the freeway onramp, and by that time coolant temps are 170-180 degrees F. but the oil temps are still only around 70 degrees F. It takes a good 10-12 miles of freeway driving to get oil temps to 150 degrees F., the lowest at which I'll go full throttle, and probably another 5-10 miles to get it up to a stabilized temp of around 210 degrees F.

With the oil cooler in place, if the temps are around freezing, it will never get to even 160 degrees F. during freeway driving. City driving with lower airflow will eventually get the oil up to 210 degrees after about a half hour or so.

It doesn't worry me a whole lot. Even at 160 degrees, any moisture is going to evaporate. It won't evaporate as fast as if it were 210 degrees F. but it will happen.
Thanks guys. Now I know why my '14 short tripper 2.4(1-2 miles) Accord's oil always smells like gasoline.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: climhazzard
Are most engine's oil getting above 100C in regular driving conditions? Seems on the hot side, and that moisture would be a problem even outside the context of limited use.



Dunno. I think the presentation I mention above is perhaps over-stating the problem, otherwise you'd think it'd have a higher profile, but I'm not as unconcerned about it as I was last week.

Might have to do something about it. Maybe measure my oil temperature.

 

[dedonderosa]

change the oil every year for peace of mind and change that PCX filter every other year and be done with it.
dont overthink it

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: dedonderosa
change the oil every year for peace of mind and change that PCX filter every other year and be done with it.
dont overthink it


I prefer to (over)think it through thanks.

If I (over)think it through, I might end up understanding it.

That'll give me peace of mind, and its cheaper and more satisfying than (under)thinking it and replacing thought with money.

Having (over) thought about it a bit more, I think I see a/the flaw in that presentations pitch, which I've posted in the appropriate thread.

 

[jj51702]

There is a guy here running his old school 240z on original factory fill (or one oil change- correct me if I'm wrong) from the 70s.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: jj51702
There is a guy here running his old school 240z on original factory fill (or one oil change- correct me if I'm wrong) from the 70s.


Nope.

I am running QS super blend 10w40 from 1973 in my 1973 240Z. I have a large supply of older oil cans that I'm running for fun. I have been running it for 1811 miles and almost 4 years on the same OCI.

 

[jj51702]

Lol record response time and I didn't even state your username. Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe your post will give the OP confidence with his OCI and possibly let him stretch it out.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: jj51702
Lol record response time and I didn't even state your username. Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe your post will give the OP confidence with his OCI and possibly let him stretch it out.



Well, to be fair, who else here fits that description?

Many people on here (Not specifically the original poster) confuse ignorance with mechanical empathy and feel if they use the most expensive oils and/or ridiculously short OCI's that it is somehow treating their engine "better". Your engine needs adequate oil and anything over that is a waste of time and money. Low mileage use and getting the oil HOT (not just idled in a garage) with a quality synthetic will go multiple years as shown by years and years of UOAs. [censored], I'm doing it with no worries on 44 year old cans on dead shear prone dinosaur carcasses.