Normal varnish for 140k miles?

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Couldn't really get a good visible pic of the area with the fill-tube removed. The chains and moving parts looked good. In fact, most areas looked clean, but when I was able to kind of look forward (front of engine), in certain nooks and crannies there was a good deal of varnish. Almost like where the oil got a good flow, it was perfectly clean, but areas where the oil didn't actively circulate, or where it could settle like in a nook, there was some varnish and crud. I don't know...this is a 10 year old vehicle. Some varnish and gunk is surely inevitable and not of consequence, right?

This is the 3.6l v6.

Well, it's due for an oil change. I have a jug of Royal Purple I was going to use. But now, I think I may use RL for the next couple changes, just to clean up a little.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
How do you take these type of pictures?


This type of photo requires a camera/lens that will focus to 18"-24"..
Use the center focusing box to make sure the focus is "down the hole" and not on the rim.
Use a small aperture to get more in focus (F:8-11)
Use the camera's flash.
Crop the image to the center of interest.

Hope this helps...
 
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Also- never touched or thought about the pcv valve. Just pulled it. It looks gunked up, but seems to work fine and the valve seems to be moving freely. Still, I'll replace.
 
Originally Posted By: lomez
Also- never touched or thought about the pcv valve. Just pulled it. It looks gunked up, but seems to work fine and the valve seems to be moving freely. Still, I'll replace.

Good.

One thing many people don't realize is that a PCV valve can have metal fatigue of the spring, causing it to open and close at the wrong time... However, it passes the shake test.
 
Which proves to a degree that this oil fill hole is just like chocolate it makes you feel good at times. However as you said towards the front of the engine etc.Sometime people do not want to see the front of the engine and just keep it un real....
cool.gif

Originally Posted By: lomez
Couldn't really get a good visible pic of the area with the fill-tube removed. The chains and moving parts looked good. In fact, most areas looked clean, but when I was able to kind of look forward (front of engine), in certain nooks and crannies there was a good deal of varnish. Almost like where the oil got a good flow, it was perfectly clean, but areas where the oil didn't actively circulate, or where it could settle like in a nook, there was some varnish and crud. I don't know...this is a 10 year old vehicle. Some varnish and gunk is surely inevitable and not of consequence, right?

This is the 3.6l v6.

Well, it's due for an oil change. I have a jug of Royal Purple I was going to use. But now, I think I may use RL for the next couple changes, just to clean up a little.
 
Yes, that looks quite normal. My Jag X-type 2.5L engine w/130K miles looks a bit less "yellow" inside, but really quite similar. It's had a steady diet of M1 since new.

My older 4.6L modular Ford F150 is pushing 300K and looks just a touch more yellow inside. M1 since new.

Neither engine has any buildup of deposits. Just a slight discoloration.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Yes, that looks quite normal. My Jag X-type 2.5L engine w/130K miles looks a bit less "yellow" inside, but really quite similar. It's had a steady diet of M1 since new.

My older 4.6L modular Ford F150 is pushing 300K and looks just a touch more yellow inside. M1 since new.

Neither engine has any buildup of deposits. Just a slight discoloration.


My old 2v had around 250k on it,whatever oil I decided to try out so every oil change was different and when I pulled it apart after it spit a plug it was also very clean.
I wonder if that's just a trait of the mod engines. I've never seen one that was sludged.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Yes, that looks quite normal. My Jag X-type 2.5L engine w/130K miles looks a bit less "yellow" inside, but really quite similar. It's had a steady diet of M1 since new.

My older 4.6L modular Ford F150 is pushing 300K and looks just a touch more yellow inside. M1 since new.

Neither engine has any buildup of deposits. Just a slight discoloration.


My old 2v had around 250k on it,whatever oil I decided to try out so every oil change was different and when I pulled it apart after it spit a plug it was also very clean.
I wonder if that's just a trait of the mod engines. I've never seen one that was sludged.


The parts mgr. at our local Ford dealer(I knew him personally) told me the primary reason for timing chain and guide failure on the 4.6 was sludged engines. They do sludge like any other engine abused on dino with longer OCIs. Engines with little varnish do have longer valve train life than those that have heavy varnish or sludge.
 
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Here are a couple of pics from my Jag X-Type with 130K, M1 since new.

oilcap2.JPG


oilcap1.jpg


I do have to wonder why the Toyota has more deposits and more "color" to the metal.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet

I do have to wonder why the Toyota has more deposits and more "color" to the metal.


Me too....I was quite surprised to see how "copper-golden" this engine was...

camtpss.jpg
 
But this guy used PP and Mobil1 so why the varnish??? He did not abuse with dino at all. Leads you to think you get varnish no matter what and looking down the oil fill hole tells you little as he found out.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Yes, that looks quite normal. My Jag X-type 2.5L engine w/130K miles looks a bit less "yellow" inside, but really quite similar. It's had a steady diet of M1 since new.

My older 4.6L modular Ford F150 is pushing 300K and looks just a touch more yellow inside. M1 since new.

Neither engine has any buildup of deposits. Just a slight discoloration.


My old 2v had around 250k on it,whatever oil I decided to try out so every oil change was different and when I pulled it apart after it spit a plug it was also very clean.
I wonder if that's just a trait of the mod engines. I've never seen one that was sludged.


The parts mgr. at our local Ford dealer(I knew him personally) told me the primary reason for timing chain and guide failure on the 4.6 was sludged engines. They do sludge like any other engine abused on dino with longer OCIs. Engines with little varnish do have longer valve train life than those that have heavy varnish or sludge.
 
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
But this guy used PP and Mobil1 so why the varnish??? He did not abuse with dino at all. Leads you to think you get varnish no matter what and looking down the oil fill hole tells you little as he found out.


I'm not so sure that a slight amber color can be considered "varnish". I do see a slight amber color on my M1 engines after a long time. But, I've yet to see any type of buildup, any form of carbon stuck in piston ring lands, or any "dirty" pistons or valves.

Plus, it cleans up instantly to "like new" condition in the parts washer. Even our previous company vans with many hundreds of thousands of M1 miles don't have anything more than a light amber color, as shown above.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
But this guy used PP and Mobil1 so why the varnish??? He did not abuse with dino at all. Leads you to think you get varnish no matter what and looking down the oil fill hole tells you little as he found out.


I'm not so sure that a slight amber color can be considered "varnish". I do see a slight amber color on my M1 engines after a long time. But, I've yet to see any type of buildup, any form of carbon stuck in piston ring lands, or any "dirty" pistons or valves.

Plus, it cleans up instantly to "like new" condition in the parts washer. Even our previous company vans with many hundreds of thousands of M1 miles don't have anything more than a light amber color, as shown above.


Good point. In all the decades I have used M1 oils never have I seen any sludge or real varnish for that matter. Where there is heavy varnish, ring coking, as you mentioned may already be forming or soon to be.
 
Thanks Cujet

....it's good to know that a bit of "coppertoning" isn't a case "varnishing"...

...and it is kinda nice looking...
 
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The v6 engine is similar to Camry v6 that is famous for sludge. Even with the synthetic, it still get covered with varnish.
 
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I'm with Cujet. I don't see any real varnish.

From the photos, that's a very clean engine on the top end.

You could eat your supper off that engine.

Every engine with that many miles should have nice a "patina."

My '03 PAthFinder's V6 engine has 141,000 miles on it and it looks about the same.
 
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
I wonder if that's just a trait of the mod engines. I've never seen one that was sludged.


I've seen Modulars sludged and heavily varnished many times, it's not even that uncommon. In fact, most 5.4 3V cam phaser noise concerns usually stem from varnish/sludge.

Mustangs are less likely to be varnished because they are normally maintained a little better than your average F150, Crown Vic, Town Car or Explorer.
 
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