Non-polar Esters

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
There are nonpolar esters. If I had to bet, I'd say that the ester ZDDP comes in is nonpolar, which would allow the blender the choice of whether or not they wanted their oil to have polar properties or not, rather than the additive supplier deciding for them.

quoted from this thread


Can a professional tribologist please comment on this?

 

[chevrofreak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

Zinc dithiophosphates (often referred to as ZDDP) are a family of coordination compounds that feature zinc bound to the anion of dithiophosphoric acid. These uncharged compounds are not salts. They are soluble in nonpolar solvents, and the longer chain derivatives easily dissolve in mineral and synthetic oils used as lubricants.

That's what makes me think it likely comes in a nonpolar ester.

 

[Pablo]

Mori - I don't think that is correct. A "non-polar ester" is a non-sequitur, and oxymoron if you please.

The very definition of an ester is what?

Simplified but quick

By the very nature of what we call esters they have this: Ö

Which makes them polar. Now there could be long chain esters with balanced polarities, but they would still be polar molecules. Also, the dipole moments on these esters are relatively weak compared, to say water and even other polar organic compounds. One of note are amines, which are used in some lubricants.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/213organicfcgp.html

 

[buster]

Never heard of a non-polar ester.

 

[JAG]

There are laymen who know of what they speak and those who don't. Mori, your doubt was justified.

 

[moribundman]

Well, I'm not the one who came up with non-polar esters, if you care to check. The credit goes to chevrofreak.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Mori - I don't think that is correct. A "non-polar ester" is a non-sequitur, and oxymoron if you please.


However, if I were to say that, it would be brushed aside as a layman's opinion. That's why I keep calling upon the actual experts that have something resembling credentials and believability.

Quite frankly, I've had it up to here *motions with hand 1/4 inch under nose* with people's opinions. It's time to get some facts, whatever it takes.

 

[Pablo]

Maybe they think you couldn't handle the truth. So they hold back.

 

[Pete591]

Ester oils are very polar (+) and hence have a high affinity for metals (-).

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Maybe they think you couldn't handle the truth. So they hold back.

Or maybe it's that he PO'ed too many people on the board and noone cares to answer his questions anymore.

 

[SL8R]

This is way, way, way, way, way off topic, but Mori's signature reminded me of a short story (in only six words) by Hemingway, which he called his greatest work.

Explained here: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html

Have a great weekend folks!

Cheers,

Jeff

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Pete591
Ester oils are very polar (+) and hence have a high affinity for metals (-).


What's the polarity of a layer of sludge and deposits on bare metal?

 

[Pablo]

Gooze must be alive!! Alive I tell you!! ALIVE!!!


Jelled [censored] could be non-polar. Or not.

 

[ravenchris]

Thankfully...more chirping.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Or maybe it's that he PO'ed too many people on the board and noone cares to answer his questions anymore.

I'm extremely selective when it comes to making friends and enemies!

PS: Who is this Noone?

 

[labman]

I am a professional chemist, and I say all esters are polar, some more, some less.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: labman
I am a professional chemist, and I say all esters are polar, some more, some less.


Thank you.

 

[chevrofreak]

I guess the lesson here is that Google is not a reliable source of information. A search for nonpolar esters has a lot of results.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I guess the lesson here is that Google is not a reliable source of information. A search for nonpolar esters has a lot of results.


The lesson is that when professional advice is solicited, laymen should not stick their necks out. I'd surely consider turning to you for advice regarding the purchase of a flashlight, though!

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I guess the lesson here is that Google is not a reliable source of information. A search for nonpolar esters has a lot of results.


Lesson one from Dr. Google, volume doesn't equal validity. I must admit, you did just now "make" me google "nonpolar esters" and sure as shift happens, BITOG was the only solid hit claiming there are such animals. The rest of the hits just come up for word combos, kicking lesson two in: before you actually claim the knowledge, you might actually want to read the material. Example:

Originally Posted By: googlehit
Nylon composition containing non-polar ester plasticizer - US ..


Originally Posted By: Material

The present invention, therefore, provides a composition comprising a nylon resin, an additive insoluble in the nylon and from 0.1 to 10 percent by weight of a plasticizer that is a relatively non-polar ester.