*Noack Volatility - 20 grades

"Exxon's forte is wholesaling for gross profit. Completely opposite of Mobil's business model."

I remember reading about that back then.
 
All businesses are in business for profit. I heard that too back in the late 90s, but it came from Amsoil dealers. Whenever there are mergers, these things can happen.

I don't think Mobil 1 has changed in quality over the years for the worse. The times have changed. People cried when it was identified that Mobil 1 was using Group III. Now, even Amsoil, won't disclose base oils and the base oil "wars" have for the most part subsided.
 
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Mobil 1 jumped the shark after Exxon bought Mobil and they didn't work hard on lubricants any longer. Esp. after the Castrol lawsuit debacle. I know - I was a Mobil Lubricants Engineer and talked to many other ex-Mobil lubrication folks. Exxon's forte is wholesaling for gross profit. Completely opposite of Mobil's business model. That they were allowed to recombine after being broken up as part of the Standard Oil Trust government action still troubles.

It was a lawsuit?
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Mobil 1 jumped the shark after Exxon bought Mobil and they didn't work hard on lubricants any longer. Esp. after the Castrol lawsuit debacle. I know - I was a Mobil Lubricants Engineer and talked to many other ex-Mobil lubrication folks. Exxon's forte is wholesaling for gross profit. Completely opposite of Mobil's business model. That they were allowed to recombine after being broken up as part of the Standard Oil Trust government action still troubles.

It was a lawsuit?


And what year was this disagreement he's calling a lawsuit …?
 
the biggest changes were after castrols syntec was sold ILLEGALLY as synthetic until the advertising council $$$ decided it was close enough + others followed using cheaper but better group III oils now legally synthetic. mobil I WAS a superior PAO before that + castrol has FOREVER screwed up oil classifications!! even Scamsoil changed NOT touting their PAO formulation + today they are moot + i REFUSE to overpay for their products!!
 
Last edited:
lol a lot has changed since then. Additives have become more advanced.
 
Originally Posted by benjy
the biggest changes were after castrols syntec was sold ILLEGALLY as synthetic until the advertising council $$$ decided it was close enough + others followed using cheaper but better group III oils now legally synthetic. mobil I WAS a superior PAO before that + castrol has FOREVER screwed up oil classifications!! even Scamsoil changed NOT touting their PAO formulation + today they are moot + i REFUSE to overpay for their products!!

More absolute nonsense. There was nothing illegal about it at all. The NAD of the BBB has no authority in and of itself, if the decision had gone against Castrol and they continued to use the marketing term then the only thing the NAD could have done would have been to refer it to the FTC for review and potential legal enforcement. Considering the very weak technical position Mobil had on the subject (such as Mobil selling the exact same reformed base stocks in Europe as "synthetic"), it is highly doubtful that the FTC would have ruled any different had they even agreed to take the case in the first place. Plus the SAE made no such distinction in their standards and had elsewhere called the base stocks synthetic, so the real truth is that Mobil's position was precarious from the start.
 
10W30 is still one of my favorite viscosity grades even though I have been researching some 0W30/40 and even 10W40 (back to my roots).

... and the winner is Amsoil SS 10W30 with Noack of 4.1
shocked2.gif


Couple other that I currently have:
Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W30 Noack is 8.9
GTX Magnatec 10W30 is 6.95
very reasonable price ($20? /5qt) Noack wise.

M1 EP Noack is also good but can't recall.
All I know it hardly burns any oil in one of my cars so I don't care about the Noack
grin2.gif
I've used both 5W30 and 10W30 but prefer 10W30 EP when i find it at local stores.
 
Originally Posted by farrarfan1
Valvoline now has the updated SP GF-6 specs for the advanced synthetic on their website. Noack on the 5W-20 went from 7.6 to now showing
The modern engine section hasn't been updated when I posted this.

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/3aa410a1-0bbd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1


Thanks for sharing.
cheers3.gif


Mobil is going to be adding Noack I was told to their PDS. Valvoline takes it down. LOL
 
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by farrarfan1
Valvoline now has the updated SP GF-6 specs for the advanced synthetic on their website. Noack on the 5W-20 went from 7.6 to now showing
The modern engine section hasn't been updated when I posted this.

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/3aa410a1-0bbd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1


Thanks for sharing.
cheers3.gif


Mobil is going to be adding Noack I was told to their PDS. Valvoline takes it down. LOL

You're welcome. Just noticed they've also dropped the TBN as well, I believe it was 9.3 if memory serves.
 
Higher Noack, lower TBN ...
relatively speaking, sounds like the new formulation is going downhill. No? or is it due to meeting gf6 requirements? or maybe it's no longer as "extended" kind of an oil as it used to be.
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Higher Noack, lower TBN ...
relatively speaking, sounds like the new formulation is going downhill. No?
Maybe it's no longer as "extended" kind of an oil as it used to be.


Who knows. Valvoline makes good products and their VIOC centers are nice, but their technical staff and customer service I personally don't like. Look how they marketed Modern Engine. To this day no one knows how it works. They make bold claims of 40% reduction in carbon buildup and give no details how, why or what the testing was done to prove it.
 
I hate numbers like < 15. Might as well not show that. Isn't that the limit anyway?
Amsoil is < 15 .... 4.1 to be exact.
When I see < 15, my mind goes to 14.9 ... lol

Something about Noack ... For some reason I can not not consider it
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Higher Noack, lower TBN ...
relatively speaking, sounds like the new formulation is going downhill. No? or is it due to meeting gf6 requirements? or maybe it's no longer as "extended" kind of an oil as it used to be.


I should clarify my comment about the TBN. I meant that Valvoline isn't displaying it on the product information page like they used to, not that the value was lowered. I apologize for not being clear on what I meant.
 
I see ... "Dropped" doesn't mean lowered ... I made that assumption.
However when something is good or got better, you don't drop it.
It's like amsoil saying our noack is < 15 instead of 4.1 or just dropping it.
 
I'll play devil's advocate. Knowing that ONE spec doesn't give you the complete picture, and knowing how people like us can get obsessed over certain aspects of oil formulations, I can see why an oil company would limit certain numbers.

Even a high quality oil like Driven doesn't provide Noack. I had to ask for that.
 
I've noticed discrepancies with Amsoil's Noack numbers on both the Russian oil site and Spanish YouTube channel. I'm not suggesting Amsoil's numbers aren't right, but of all the brands tested, their numbers show higher where as the other brands either matched the data sheets, or were reported lower. Same identical method too (ASTM D5800). All of the Amsoil SS oils (SN+) showed at least a percentage point higher. So ASM was 9.7% NOT 8.5%, Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 was 9.8%, M1 EP 5w30 was 9%, Redline 5w20 was 5.5% and Amsoil ATM was 6.6%, NOT the 4.1% they claim. Odd. I bet Amsoil runs multiple tests and takes the outlier low ball figure.

Bottom line, all of these oils range from 5.5% to 10%.
 
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