NG usage - does this seem out of line???

[JHZR2]

Hi,

Per my threads on hot water heaters and whatnot, Ive pulled the data regarding the NG usage in my house.

My fiancee is housesitting while Im in AL. She is very careful with water usage (growing up in the USVI, all the water you have is what is in the cistern under your house). I know that I take a longer shower than she does. She is one person living in the house in the summertime, she does one load of wash (thus runs the gas dryer) per week, and does about half of her dishes by hand and half in the dishwasher. However, she certainly doesnt have that many dishes.

So, in May, the use was:
29.299 Therms at $0.2979624 for distribution (total $8.73)
$1.06351750 for commodity (total $31.16)

And in June the use was:
31.453 Therms at $0.2979624 for distribution (total $9.38)
$1.06349160 for commodity (total $33.45)

So rather consistent, and to me, seemingly high.

But I dont have anything to compare to. Is this gas usage high? If Im paying $33/month now, I cant imagine how much Ill be paying come the wintertime, even with the thermostats set quite low... Obviously it will be this base amount plus quite a bit.

I have to wonder if my HW heater is running inefficiently to make these use rates, since it is the main thing running, or if it is normal - since I dont have any real way to know or compare.. my old apartment was all electric.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks!

JMH

 

[labman]

OK, 1900 sqft 2 story where it usually is colder than last winter. Gas furnace. dryer, and hot water. Just my wife and I and 2 dogs here usually. The dogs do not shower or have much laundry. Therms used starting with the January bill:

172
144
126
142
49
38
17
18
14
21
37
77

It varies, but the cost was usually a little over $1 a therm.

The new 40 gallon hot water heater I just installed estimates it would use about 250 therms a year. You can see that is high for us because we average more like 16 therms for hot water and the dryer. Our highest bill was $201 total.

I don't feel the above data is consistent with the hype for the tankless hot water heaters. Our old hot water heater was a cheapy, and it lasted over 25 years. I am 62, and figure the new one could outlive me.

 

[thooks]

4 People, 2400 SF home, 3 females, 1 male.

We average about 24 CCF of gas for heating water in the summer. Front load washer, 95% showers. Dishwasher runs about once every other day.

Our gas bill is about $40 per month including taxes.

 

[Kestas]

My conditions, usage, and cost are nearly identical to labman's. We now pay roughly $1.04/CCF.

When doing laundry, I try to dry my clothes by hanging them in the basement during the winter (very dry in the house), or outside in the summer (but not underwear!). If I can only convince the lady of the house to do the same. She likes the 'fluff' the dryer gives to the clothes... I try to explain how expensive this 'fluff' can be... she calls me a cheap @ss... I tell her I'm the one paying the bills... this goes back and forth... and, well, you guys know how it goes!

 

[labman]

How old is your hot water heater, and do you flush it? At least once a month you should open the bottom drain and let the water run until it runs clear. Crud collects in the bottom causeing it to run less efficiently. It also over heats the outside of it causing it to fail sooner.

 

[JHZR2]

the hw heater is about 8-10 years old. I only recently bought the place, ad we havent done anything of the sort yet...

flushing will be the next step...

JMH

 

[Kestas]

I flush mine a number of times each year since I bought it new 7 years ago. Nothing really comes out the bottom.

I wanted to replace my mother's (then) 35 year old water heater as preventive maintenance when she was in Florida once. The furnace man told me not to, as the old ones were built much better than they are now. The new ones last not much more than 12-15 years. Her water heater is now 40 years old and still working!

 

[Alcibiades]

Hot water heaters have a "dip tube" that can begin to disentigrate after several years. It's just a tube that directs the new cold water coming into the tank down to the bottom of the tank where it will not mix with the hot water coming out of the top of the tank. In a gas heater it should be cut so that it is at least 18 inches from the bottom or it can fail much sooner.

Symptoms of dip tube failure/disentigration are less hot water to use (because the cold is mixing with the hot at the top of the tank), and also little white pieces of plastic stuck in the aerators of your faucets (that would be little pieces of your dip tube).

Just something to be aware of, in case you didn't already know, and since you obviously care about you NG usage.

Also, for those with electric tanks, if you empty out your tank occassionally to get crud off the bottom, be sure to turn off the power to the tank, and do not turn it back on until it is full again. Otherwise you'll likely burn out at least one of your heating elements, sooner or later.

 

[JHZR2]

what is the best flush method??? I assume somethinglike:

turn temperature to lowest setting or off if possible, allow tank to cool or run hot water out of faucets

hook large diameter hose to drain valve, open drain valve

I assume that as it drains out the valve at the bottom, new water will be forced in through whatever the metering/level maintaining mechanism is in a HW heater.

I also assume that the pressure drop across a heater is sufficiently low that I could attach a 50 foot hose and send the water out a basement window without issue, and with good flushing results.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks!

JMH

 

[JayhawkRoy]

I would go ahead and flush the hot water heater, but you may have so much build up on the bottom of the tank that flushing will not do enough good. The buildup on the bottom requires your water heater to run longer to achieve the desired hot water temp. Replacement may be indicated here. Also, if there is only one person in the house, set the thermostat to the middle and you should have enough hot water. Setting it high all the time costs you in gas use. To force the water out, leave a hot water faucet open above the basement, to ensure that gravity and pressure helps the water out. Not sure if you can drain out a basement window as you planned, so good luck there. At 10 yrs old, I would consider replacing the hot water heater with a new, more efficient one. Payback is relatively short.

 

[JHZR2]

well, here is the deal - the PO spent good money on various stuff, and we really like the house, but according to the neighbors, and from what weve been noticing - they didnt know the concept of PM, so Id venture to guess that the hot water heater was never drained.

Are you saying that despite a hot water system being pressurized, that I need to have a faucet open to let the water come out of the drain in the heater??? This sounds to me that there is no pressure to force it out, but there has to be water pressure... what gives? If there is not useful pressure, how do you even get the water to fill a bucket??? My HW heater is on the ground, and the drainisnt far from the bottom!

What about hooking a hose between the HW heater and the suction end of an electric pump?

The local utility is giving rebates on HE HW heaters (tank ones)... given what Im reading, a 0.63 EF new heater might not be a bad deal - heck we replace syn oils at 3k to know what is in the engine and start with a clean slate, maybe doing this with the HW heater is a smart move too!

There is a weil-mclain gas furnace that my homeinspector tld me was quite good. Seems that it probably never got PM either... should I drain and refill the water in that too???

Thanks!

JMH

 

[Kestas]

The water heater should be under pressure, so drawing water from the drain should be easy. At the same time you should exercise the overpressure blow-off valve (or whatever it's called) located on top of the water heater, and drain off that water.

You suggested buying a new water heater because of incentives from the local utility. Why replace a water heater that probably still has lots of life left in it? If the rebate is that good and hard to turn away from, buy a new water heater now, cash in the rebate, and keep the water heater on standby for when your present water heater bites the dust.

 

[JHZR2]

OK, so essentially, as I would think, I should be able to attach a hose and blow water out of a window or into the slob sink in the basement...

Seems that there would have to be pressure... ELse how would hot water leave the heater?!?!

Youre right about spending the money to replace. Its like the argument of someone who has a 15 MPG vehicle - the cost of continued operation is less than the cost of a replacement purchase. My problem is that I have exactly zero idea about the history of this unit. I suppose that if I clean it properly, Ill be able to eek out the best efficiency I can, which in the end all shouldnt be that bad.

Its just seemingly easy to blame a potentially inefficient hot water heater for the NG usage in the house, given that nobody is usually home.

Thanks!

JMH

 

[Alcibiades]

There should be a valve on the cold line coming into the heater that you can shut off. Shut that off. (This will only shut off the pressure for the hot water coming out of the heater.) Then, shut off the gas to the heater. (There should be an obvious valve for it. You'll have to restart the pilot light later, but must now have electric buttons for that. Even gas heaters use a little electricity to control the thermostat.) Then hook up a garden hose to the drain valve at the bottom, and drain the water out. Don't turn on a faucet. Since the drain valve is at the bottom of the tank, the weight of the water already in there is all the pressure you need. When it is finished draining, close the drain valve at the bottom, disconnect the garden hose, then open the valve that lets the cold water into the tank. Let the tank fill, then turn on the gas and set it to the temp. you want. Give it plenty of time to heat up. There will likely be lots of air in the pipes that will have to be pushed through all the faucets, washing machine, and anything else that uses hot water. Might as well open up all the faucets at once and be done with it.

I never do this to my own water heater, though I probably should. The only time I did it was when I had to replace my dip tube. I drained it, completely disconnected the tank, laid it out on the lawn, and hosed it out thoroughly to get all the little white pieces of dip tube pipe out.

Once a month seems excessive to me, but I suppose it depends on how much hot water you use (if a lot, then the constant refilling will stir up anything that might settle on the bottom and push it out with the hot water), and on how much in the way of solids there is in your water supply that could settle in the tank. I wouldn't do it more than once a year unless I had well water that I knew to have a high level of solid insolubles.

Good luck!

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JHZR2:
OK, so essentially, as I would think, I should be able to attach a hose and blow water out of a window or into the slob sink in the basement...

Seems that there would have to be pressure... ELse how would hot water leave the heater?!?!

Youre right about spending the money to replace. Its like the argument of someone who has a 15 MPG vehicle - the cost of continued operation is less than the cost of a replacement purchase.

---

Hook a hose to the bib on the heater drain valve nd run it out a window or to a drain and open the valve. It's that simple.

The pressure in the heater will make the water come out good and fast and the cold waterline into the heater will kee[ the heater fill.

If an only if water won't come out of the valve because it's plugged, then shut off the burner and incoming cold water and take the valve out so you can drain the tank.

A neighbors heater in San Jose was so plugged that the water din't even run out when he removed the valve. He didn't think to turn the water off, so his garage got washed down with crud and water when he chisled the crud out of the hole.

 

[Razl]

So it sounds like your old and/or dirty tank is running you an extra 10+/- therms per month compared to a new gas tank model. Like you said, keeping that 15MPG tank may be worth cleaning and holding on to.

Do your research now on a replacement and its availability so you'll not be forced into an impulsive buy when the time comes.

 

[JHZR2]

yep, I already know that the local utility (PSE&G) sells the A.O. Smith Conservationist, with a 0.63EF and they fully warrant it.

JMH

 

[mechtech]

Iran burns off more natural gas as 'waste', than their entire fuel and electrical energy needs are, combined.
Your original post brought this to rememberance.