New Z4

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
But, no I will not sell it. Will just get other car like BMW 335i or Audi S4, take kids to daycare, skiing, etc. in that. Sienna can serve for time when my mother in law comes to visit.

It must be nice to be so wealthy that you can afford keep a vehicle just for mother-in-law visits. Most of us are not that lucky.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
But, no I will not sell it. Will just get other car like BMW 335i or Audi S4, take kids to daycare, skiing, etc. in that. Sienna can serve for time when my mother in law comes to visit.

It must be nice to be so wealthy that you can afford keep a vehicle just for mother-in-law visits. Most of us are not that lucky.

Luck does not have to do anything with that.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by MCompact
I never let my responsibilities as a father sentence me to deadly dull vehicles. I took my son to school in a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with a five speed manual and followed up with the Wrangler Sahara I still have. I share the automotive philosophy of fellow Kentuckian the late David E. Davis Jr.- No boring cars!

Yeah, I get it, but we do really long trips, and minivan is honestly best option when you pretty much pack whole house to do 5-7,000 mile trip.
Last year I did 5,114 mile trip in BMW X5 (before that did several 2-3,000 miles). And although we had Yakima skybox, it was tight with luggage (of course, I enjoyed driving every one of those 5, 114 miles). Minivan easily solves those issues. So, I decided to get Toyota bcs of two things. 1. It has ability to manually shift, which is must for me when driving in mountains, and 2. It has AWD. As for everything else, KIA, Honda, whatever other minivan, it is same POS, just different package. Also, I went into this knowing I will get fun car for pretty much everything except moving more than 5 people or long, LONG trips. So, I knew it that it will be frustrating, just did not know that built quality would be just notch above my Yugo.

 

[4WD]

Saw a brand new X7 at Costco today … a bronze metallic … sharp sharp ride … maybe that Atlas is just too much like a Toyota and you're gonna regret not going for the gusto !

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Saw a brand new X7 at Costco today … a bronze metallic … sharp sharp ride … maybe that Atlas is just too much like a Toyota and you're gonna regret not going for the gusto !

LOL, I would not get X7. Generally I do not like SUV's or similar vehicles. I do not see point in X7, whatsoever. My beef with Toyota is abysmal quality of assembly (and parts, like brakes), not the fact that it is minivan. Minivans and similar vehicles have their role, they come useful for various stuff (for example I managed to move refrigerator).
Like I said before, no one wants minivan now. Their value depreciates much faster, so there are cheaper buy slightly used. But IMO, are more useful for families than SUV's. I tried Highlander, Pilot, etc. and they do not make any sense compare to minivan since they are made for same thing, moving large family.
But, since I drove Yugo, I did not have problem of moving mirrors, rattling windows when music is hiked up, headlights that apper to be running on two AAA batteries, etc. No one expects from minivan to do Z4 stuff, but at least they could screw in mirrors properly. That is why I mentioned Atlas. At least when you close the door there is that sound of quality, not like in Sienna, sound of dropping empty can of beer on the concrete.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
just did not know that built quality would be just notch above my Yugo.

If you actually purchased/owned a Yugo, and you are comparing it's quality with your Sienna, you just lost any semblance of credibility. Nobody in their right mind would compare the quality of a Sienna (or ANY other Toyota) to the quality of a Yugo, except you. The Yugo (along with the Fiat it was based on, and the Trabant) is among the lowest quality cars EVER produced. When you are talking about cars that are fun to drive, the Yugo was an absolute riot. NOT!

 

[wings&wheels]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
But, no I will not sell it. Will just get other car like BMW 335i or Audi S4, take kids to daycare, skiing, etc. in that. Sienna can serve for time when my mother in law comes to visit.

It must be nice to be so wealthy that you can afford keep a vehicle just for mother-in-law visits. Most of us are not that lucky.

Luck does not have to do anything with that.



Ha! You beat me to it...we kept an RX350 (numb and boring, but so easy to own) around for the same reason. Didn't see muck 'luck' in it

 

[wings&wheels]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Saw a brand new X7 at Costco today … a bronze metallic … sharp sharp ride … maybe that Atlas is just too much like a Toyota and you're gonna regret not going for the gusto !

Good friends just bought one. I find the styling good but a bit ho hum (all X's look the same to me), then I drove it. May be the new family DD in a year or so.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
just did not know that built quality would be just notch above my Yugo.

If you actually purchased/owned a Yugo, and you are comparing it's quality with your Sienna, you just lost any semblance of credibility. Nobody in their right mind would compare the quality of a Sienna (or ANY other Toyota) to the quality of a Yugo, except you. The Yugo (along with the Fiat it was based on, and the Trabant) is among the lowest quality cars EVER produced. When you are talking about cars that are fun to drive, the Yugo was an absolute riot. NOT!

Dude I grew up in former Yugoslavia. I grew up IN Zastava 101, a predecessor of Yugo. Zastava 101 was my first vehicle, actually I was racing one (if you can call it that way) on local hill climbs. And I had Yugo, not any, but one with double Weber carburetors.
I know what I am talking about. Assemble of windows in Yugo and Toyota Sienna is right there, hard to decide which one is worse. Though to Yugo's credit, mirrors did not move this much.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Originally Posted by 4WD
Saw a brand new X7 at Costco today … a bronze metallic … sharp sharp ride … maybe that Atlas is just too much like a Toyota and you're gonna regret not going for the gusto !

Good friends just bought one. I find the styling good but a bit ho hum (all X's look the same to me), then I drove it. May be the new family DD in a year or so.

Wife and I went to see it as she thinks she will upgrade from Tiguan to something bigger in few years. Since we will have this atrocity of vehicle (Sienna) for long trips, I do not see added benefit over X5.

 

[4WD]

Guy at work is going through the two baby phase and still crying that he traded his Shelby GT350 … told him to drop me that Honda Oddity (what I call it to rub it in, he's really a hoot) and I'd rig the baby seats* to press a button and they'll flip 180 into 15" subwoofers … While suspension drops 6" … LoL

*Reckon I should put weight sensors in an interlocking circuit in case he forgot something (or two)

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
just did not know that built quality would be just notch above my Yugo.

If you actually purchased/owned a Yugo, and you are comparing it's quality with your Sienna, you just lost any semblance of credibility. Nobody in their right mind would compare the quality of a Sienna (or ANY other Toyota) to the quality of a Yugo, except you. The Yugo (along with the Fiat it was based on, and the Trabant) is among the lowest quality cars EVER produced. When you are talking about cars that are fun to drive, the Yugo was an absolute riot. NOT!

Dude I grew up in former Yugoslavia. I grew up IN Zastava 101, a predecessor of Yugo. Zastava 101 was my first vehicle, actually I was racing one (if you can call it that way) on local hill climbs. And I had Yugo, not any, but one with double Weber carburetors.
I know what I am talking about. Assemble of windows in Yugo and Toyota Sienna is right there, hard to decide which one is worse. Though to Yugo's credit, mirrors did not move this much.

I'll bet the dual Weber carbs made your Yugo a rocket ship.

If there ever was such a thing as a "high performance" Yugo, you owned it.
The windows don't rattle and the mirrors don't move on MY 14 year old 170k mile Sienna. I have driven MANY Siennas and have never been in one where the windows rattled and mirrors moved. Your Sienna MUST be a lemon, all the more reason why you should get rid of it ASAP and buy a Mercedes Metris (since you need a minivan and don't see the point in purchasing a larger SUV).

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
just did not know that built quality would be just notch above my Yugo.

If you actually purchased/owned a Yugo, and you are comparing it's quality with your Sienna, you just lost any semblance of credibility. Nobody in their right mind would compare the quality of a Sienna (or ANY other Toyota) to the quality of a Yugo, except you. The Yugo (along with the Fiat it was based on, and the Trabant) is among the lowest quality cars EVER produced. When you are talking about cars that are fun to drive, the Yugo was an absolute riot. NOT!

Dude I grew up in former Yugoslavia. I grew up IN Zastava 101, a predecessor of Yugo. Zastava 101 was my first vehicle, actually I was racing one (if you can call it that way) on local hill climbs. And I had Yugo, not any, but one with double Weber carburetors.
I know what I am talking about. Assemble of windows in Yugo and Toyota Sienna is right there, hard to decide which one is worse. Though to Yugo's credit, mirrors did not move this much.

I'll bet the dual Weber carbs made your Yugo a rocket ship.

If there ever was such a thing as a "high performance" Yugo, you owned it.
The windows don't rattle and the mirrors don't move on MY 14 year old 170k mile Sienna. I have driven MANY Siennas and have never been in one where the windows rattled and mirrors moved. Your Sienna MUST be a lemon, all the more reason why you should get rid of it ASAP and buy a Mercedes Metris (since you need a minivan and don't see the point in purchasing a larger SUV).

Actually, Toyota had TSB and sort of recall (bcs. Toyota does not do recalls, how else they will claim that super duper reliability. Few days ago "sort of" recall was issued for 8 speed transmission and in letter actually it says that throughout of life of transmission hard shifting and whining noise might be normal!!!). for mirrors. I do not think owner of my vehicle did it, or Toyota quality check people determined that he could still see behind.
Windows rattle due to JBL system. Since I like good and loud music (and that system is actually pretty nice, minus rattling noise) it rattles. I had numerous high end audio systems, but it did not rattle. I found solution. When it rattles I just lower windows a bit, and then bring them back up.
As for Yugo, you would be surprised what Yugo with double weber carb. can do on tiny roads and bunch of curves, as long as parking brake works

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota does not do recalls, how else they will claim that super duper reliability.

NONSENSE!!! Toyota has recalls just like every other auto manufacturer! My Sienna has had a couple of recalls, and that is the ONLY reason why it has EVER been back to the dealer.

I NEVER claimed that Toyotas are infallible and don't break. ALL vehicles break, even Toyotas. They just don't break as often as other makes, and that is a fact, not my personal opinion.

Source... http://www.dashboard-light.com/
Those are the facts. Notice where your darling BMWS, Audis, and VWs fall on the quality index. The arguments that you are making about quality are your own personal opinion and not based on facts.

 

[MCompact]

J.D. Power's Rankings:

How Consumer Reports ranks the top brands in the industry:

Subaru
Genesis
Porsche
Audi
Lexus
Mazda
BMW
Lincoln
Toyota
Hyundai
Volkswagen
Kia
Honda
Infiniti
Mini
Acura
Mercedes-Benz
Buick
Tesla
Ford

You can find surveys to support any hypothesis you want. My primary goal for any car I buy is safety- I don't want to risk dying-
of boredom...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota does not do recalls, how else they will claim that super duper reliability.

NONSENSE!!! Toyota has recalls just like every other auto manufacturer! My Sienna has had a couple of recalls, and that is the ONLY reason why it has EVER been back to the dealer.

I NEVER claimed that Toyotas are infallible and don't break. ALL vehicles break, even Toyotas. They just don't break as often as other makes, and that is a fact, not my personal opinion.

Source... http://www.dashboard-light.com/
Those are the facts. Notice where your darling BMWS, Audis, and VWs fall on the quality index. The arguments that you are making about quality are your own personal opinion and not based on facts.

Notice where Hummer is, SAAB, GMC, JEEP.
So, according to your sources, Hummer and Toyota are close in quality. Thanx for sharing that with us.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by MCompact
J.D. Power's Rankings:

How Consumer Reports ranks the top brands in the industry:

Subaru
Genesis
Porsche
Audi
Lexus
Mazda
BMW
Lincoln
Toyota
Hyundai
Volkswagen
Kia
Honda
Infiniti
Mini
Acura
Mercedes-Benz
Buick
Tesla
Ford

You can find surveys to support any hypothesis you want. My primary goal for any car I buy is safety- I don't want to risk dying-
of boredom...

Anyway you turn, Toyota needed BMW know-how.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota needed BMW know-how.


"Needed" is a strong word, Toyota could have thrown money at this project & made a world class car in-house.
Would it make financial sense is the question....Millions in development, tooling & plant space on a niche market roadster/coupe?
It's not like they have BMW's following/consumer base for such a car.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota needed BMW know-how.


"Needed" is a strong word, Toyota could have thrown money at this project & made a world class car in-house.
Would it make financial sense is the question....Millions in development, tooling & plant space on a niche market roadster/coupe?
It's not like they have BMW's following/consumer base for such a car.

+1

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota needed BMW know-how.


"Needed" is a strong word, Toyota could have thrown money at this project & made a world class car in-house.
Would it make financial sense is the question....Millions in development, tooling & plant space on a niche market roadster/coupe?
It's not like they have BMW's following/consumer base for such a car.


I don't even think Supra fanboys like the new Supra. The main sticking point is that BMW engine, de-tuned for a Supra..

The Toyota 86 is the new FRS since Scion is dead and would fill the slot of the Celica. Even this was a joint venture with Subaru, which seems closer in match to Toyota than BMW.