New vehicle bug bit me again

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Originally Posted by alarmguy
The smaller engine has to work harder.
What do you mean, works harder? it is doing the same amount of work. According to JTK under his usage it was a 1mpg difference--small but there. Less fuel burn = ... well it's the same amount of work done, but arguably the V6 has less internal resistance so it was working less hard. Under load, things do change. At any given load the V6 is using a larger percentage of its available power, sure. Is that what you are referring to? It's been a while but I recall the TFL guys taking two RAM's up Ike under the same load yet getting basically the same mpg--one was a Hemi and the other a Pentastar. Arguably an engine used at a higher percentage of its available power output should wear out faster. But how many of us have really worn out an engine under our right foot?
 

JTK

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I'll tell ya how much I love the new to me Hemi Ram versus my Pentastar Ram in a few minutes when I do an oil change on it.. The top mounted canister oil filter was nice on the Pentastar, but made me wince every time I broke it free and snugged it back up given you can see the whole assembly tweak a bit.. The old school metal can filter looks to be in a rough spot on the hemi.
 
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Originally Posted by JTK
I'll tell ya how much I love the new to me Hemi Ram versus my Pentastar Ram in a few minutes when I do an oil change on it.. The top mounted canister oil filter was nice on the Pentastar, but made me wince every time I broke it free and snugged it back up given you can see the whole assembly tweak a bit.. The old school metal can filter looks to be in a rough spot on the hemi.
The filter is in a tough spot. You can either buy an oil udder or you can use a gallon ziplock bag. Did ERAC change the oil before selling you the truck? I have noticed from carfax that they change the oil fairly infrequently on the FCA products...usually only once every 10K.
 
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Your signature still says 2017. smile Firestone prob changed the oil in June would be my guess based on that sticker. But you can confirm with them to be sure.
 
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JTK

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When I took delivery of the truck, the OLM was reset to 100%, but I didn't notice until later that the faded Firestone sticker on the W/S said the oil was changed at 7500mi @ December 2019. The oil condition on the 2 mile long dipstick didn't look new, but didn't look like it had lots of miles on it. My OCD self couldn't leave it alone. So I just changed it. Critic is right on the oil filter. Directly below it is the E-steering unit, so if you just loosen the filter with no rags and catch system, oil spills all over the E-steering unit and pass side rack bellows. There was a Pro-Tec Gastonia NC oil filter on it that was installed with a 4ft breaker bar. Oil drain plug wasn't awfully tight, but tighter than I do them. This turned out to be a complete waste of time and materials. The drained oil probably had 200 miles on it, as did that filter as seen when I cut it open. The media was still a golden color. Insert WAHHH...wahhhh.. sound clip. In went 7qts of Supertech full synthetic 5w30 and a Napa gold filter.
 
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JTK

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Just another tidbit and I'm probably boring the heck out of everyone, but I wanted to report my hemi MPG figures per the vehicle's display. I've been running kids around all day. Mostly 10 mile or so round trips in mid 90F ambient temps... in Buffalo NY... Who'd a thought! The lie-o-meter hovers between 22.0 and 22.3mpg with shorter trips. I noticed if I turn off MDS, fuel economy takes a dive. How big over the long run I don't know yet because I haven't really left it off. I've never owned a vehicle with MDS and if you're a car person, you REALLY notice it. It often feels like an extra gear shift and when she toggles into 4cyl mode, it sounds like a misfire or you've got a 2-stroke under the hood. One other goofy thing and it may be because I haven't driven the truck enough how I drive it for the shifting to adapt, but the ZF8 for the hemi seems to be programmed more for fuel efficiency than the ZF8 coupled to the Pentastar. The hemi seems to shift up into 8th quicker, where the pentastar would hang in 7th all day unless you were ultra steady on flat ground.
 
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I agree in mds for the most part. I don't feel it on flat or slightly downhill sections of road, but if it needs anything more than the slightest bit of throttle you can really feel it. If I'm doing a lot of in town driving I'll just turn it off using the range select. The extra gear shift feeling is from it unlocking the torque converter when going into/out of MDS. Sounding like a 2 stroke is a very accurate description lol! It was even worse when I removed the resonators on my Durango, which makes me very leery of messing with the exhaust in the truck.
 
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Originally Posted by JTK
When I took delivery of the truck, the OLM was reset to 100%, but I didn't notice until later that the faded Firestone sticker on the W/S said the oil was changed at 7500mi @ December 2019. The oil condition on the 2 mile long dipstick didn't look new, but didn't look like it had lots of miles on it. My OCD self couldn't leave it alone. So I just changed it. Critic is right on the oil filter. Directly below it is the E-steering unit, so if you just loosen the filter with no rags and catch system, oil spills all over the E-steering unit and pass side rack bellows. There was a Pro-Tec Gastonia NC oil filter on it that was installed with a 4ft breaker bar. Oil drain plug wasn't awfully tight, but tighter than I do them. This turned out to be a complete waste of time and materials. The drained oil probably had 200 miles on it, as did that filter as seen when I cut it open. The media was still a golden color. Insert WAHHH...wahhhh.. sound clip. In went 7qts of Supertech full synthetic 5w30 and a Napa gold filter.
I throw an old tshirt over the rack and use a gallon ziplock over the filter. Keeps the mess to a minimum.
 
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by alarmguy
The smaller engine has to work harder.
What do you mean, works harder? it is doing the same amount of work. According to JTK under his usage it was a 1mpg difference--small but there. Less fuel burn = ... well it's the same amount of work done, but arguably the V6 has less internal resistance so it was working less hard. Under load, things do change. At any given load the V6 is using a larger percentage of its available power, sure. Is that what you are referring to? It's been a while but I recall the TFL guys taking two RAM's up Ike under the same load yet getting basically the same mpg--one was a Hemi and the other a Pentastar. Arguably an engine used at a higher percentage of its available power output should wear out faster. But how many of us have really worn out an engine under our right foot?
I think you answered your questions to me with your own words = "At any given load the V6 is using a larger percentage of its available power, sure. " Would you not agree that a smaller engine might have a harder time powering a vehicle vs a larger engine, since the smaller engine is huffing and puffing trying to keep up with the load? An engine constantly using most all of its available power might have less of a useful life. I mean lets just go and blow up the engine by putting a 4 cylinder engine in the truck and towing 5,000 lbs... :o) vs a small V8, which one will last longer? Sorry dont agree, the V8 is working less hard, the V6 is being pushed to it limits.
 
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It bites me from time to time, when it comes to the Jeep Wranglers. If what I read is correct I'm happy to see eTorque is an option and not in all of the 2021 3.6L engines, and no DI. I thought it would have been a certainty across the board. I have a feeling once I know for sure that I don't have to buy eTorque, the bug might be biting me again.
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by alarmguy
The smaller engine has to work harder.
What do you mean, works harder? it is doing the same amount of work. According to JTK under his usage it was a 1mpg difference--small but there. Less fuel burn = ... well it's the same amount of work done, but arguably the V6 has less internal resistance so it was working less hard. Under load, things do change. At any given load the V6 is using a larger percentage of its available power, sure. Is that what you are referring to? It's been a while but I recall the TFL guys taking two RAM's up Ike under the same load yet getting basically the same mpg--one was a Hemi and the other a Pentastar. Arguably an engine used at a higher percentage of its available power output should wear out faster. But how many of us have really worn out an engine under our right foot?
I think you answered your questions to me with your own words = "At any given load the V6 is using a larger percentage of its available power, sure. " Would you not agree that a smaller engine might have a harder time powering a vehicle vs a larger engine, since the smaller engine is huffing and puffing trying to keep up with the load? An engine constantly using most all of its available power might have less of a useful life. I mean lets just go and blow up the engine by putting a 4 cylinder engine in the truck and towing 5,000 lbs... :o) vs a small V8, which one will last longer? Sorry dont agree, the V8 is working less hard, the V6 is being pushed to it limits.
Don't understand. Ford EB is a small V6 that seems to hang in there just fine. shrug Let's see, these trucks tip the scales around 6k, so with a 5k load it is 11k moving down the road (your example). 350hp is the norm these days for this mills? Let's say 300 for this Pentastar. Meanwhile OTR trucks run what 500hp for 50k+ running down the road? Who's using more of their available hp more of the time yet racking the miles? Oh but you might say that those OTR truck engines are designed for the long haul--and I'd say sure, just like any other engine could be. Heck someone posted a thread about a 626kmile Pentastar that went down not because of bearing wear but rather some timing chain problems. Actually, doesn't Silverado have an I4 now? Apparently GM thinks an I4 can go the distance! Sure, I see your point, the V6 (if NA) is going to be slower as it has less torque under the curve, lives at higher rpm and thus might wear out faster. Big deal, most people don't wear out engines these days. Timing chains, transmissions, electrical gremlins and keeping up with the Jones down the street (or the plain old desire for bigger and better) are the biggest threat to "long life" vehicles.
 

JTK

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Originally Posted by Slick17601
I throw an old tshirt over the rack and use a gallon ziplock over the filter. Keeps the mess to a minimum.
That's exactly what I did having read this suggestion before. I still managed to dribble a little, but no big deal. For me I didn't have to lift the front end. I can shimmy right under the front bumper to get at the filter.
 
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Originally Posted by JTK
I've never owned a vehicle with MDS and if you're a car person, you REALLY notice it. It often feels like an extra gear shift and when she toggles into 4cyl mode, it sounds like a misfire or you've got a 2-stroke under the hood. One other goofy thing and it may be because I haven't driven the truck enough how I drive it for the shifting to adapt, but the ZF8 for the hemi seems to be programmed more for fuel efficiency than the ZF8 coupled to the Pentastar. The hemi seems to shift up into 8th quicker, where the pentastar would hang in 7th all day unless you were ultra steady on flat ground.
That's one of the things they worked on with the NBS. It has active dampers on the frame rails that are supposed to cancel out the harmonics of the MDS and make it less noticeable. It works, there is no MDS "rumble" on the 19+ NBS trucks, but you can still hear it in the exhaust. There have been numerous PCM and TCM updates for that powertrain combo as well, I just updated mine last week when I was at the shop and had a chance to plug it in. I was trying to address a "bump" at low RPM and low speed with a reasonably high load transition from MDS to non-MDS and it was specifically called out in the errata for the TCM update. It has definitely improved that significantly. There may be the same or similar update for your combo.
 

JTK

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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
That's one of the things they worked on with the NBS. It has active dampers on the frame rails that are supposed to cancel out the harmonics of the MDS and make it less noticeable. It works, there is no MDS "rumble" on the 19+ NBS trucks, but you can still hear it in the exhaust. There have been numerous PCM and TCM updates for that powertrain combo as well, I just updated mine last week when I was at the shop and had a chance to plug it in. I was trying to address a "bump" at low RPM and low speed with a reasonably high load transition from MDS to non-MDS and it was specifically called out in the errata for the TCM update. It has definitely improved that significantly. There may be the same or similar update for your combo.
My old body style has a build date of August 2019, so I'm not sure what updates it may or may not have. I did notice it has a pair of cylindrical shaped, rubber isolated cast iron weights mounted on the outside of the frame rails. One per side, about even with the front passengers. I wonder if those are there to mitigate MDS harmonics. They may have been on crew cab models all along. I have no idea. If I'm in erratic or stop and go driving and MDS is bothering me, I just turn it off by hitting the minus on the -/+ to activate manual shifting mode.
 
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Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
That's one of the things they worked on with the NBS. It has active dampers on the frame rails that are supposed to cancel out the harmonics of the MDS and make it less noticeable. It works, there is no MDS "rumble" on the 19+ NBS trucks, but you can still hear it in the exhaust. There have been numerous PCM and TCM updates for that powertrain combo as well, I just updated mine last week when I was at the shop and had a chance to plug it in. I was trying to address a "bump" at low RPM and low speed with a reasonably high load transition from MDS to non-MDS and it was specifically called out in the errata for the TCM update. It has definitely improved that significantly. There may be the same or similar update for your combo.
My old body style has a build date of August 2019, so I'm not sure what updates it may or may not have. I did notice it has a pair of cylindrical shaped, rubber isolated cast iron weights mounted on the outside of the frame rails. One per side, about even with the front passengers. I wonder if those are there to mitigate MDS harmonics. They may have been on crew cab models all along. I have no idea. If I'm in erratic or stop and go driving and MDS is bothering me, I just turn it off by hitting the minus on the -/+ to activate manual shifting mode.
I expect that is indeed what those are for, to absorb some of the MDS vibrations. I've found it is quite noticeable on the Jeep, which has no such mechanism. Here's what they look like on the DT trucks: [Linked Image] They are electronically controlled and work with the noise cancellation.
 
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Originally Posted by super20dan
tick tick tick......…….....
Yeah, thats the first thing you hear when you start your Generic Motor in the morning.
 
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JTK

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I tracked my first fill-up. I got 484.6 miles out of 23.0gal of gas = 21mpg average over the whole tank. Not bad for a V8. It's about ~2mpg less than my pentastar powered Ram would get in the summer. The dash indicated about 1mpg higher. My pentastar Ram did the same thing. This was with mixed driving and me gettin' on it a time or two per use. LOL

 
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