New Tundra and it's "LIFETIME" ATF

[ib516]

So, what is the consensus on this stuff? Tow rating of over 10,000#, but you never have to change the ATF? Is the stuff that good? What's in it?

There is a thread going over at RV.net where folks are wondering. I told them I would ask the experts here, and report back. Any thoughts?

 

[H2GURU]

If one understands how a transmission works you wouldn't want to leave the deposits from the friction clutches in there for too long. They will eventually plug up something. I don't quite understand how Toyota has gone from one of the few who had factory installed drain plugs on their transmissions - to a life-time fluid? Towing or plowing I would due a 50% fluid swap annually, otherwise every 30,000 miles or 24 months W.C.F.

 

[okiedokie]

Define "LIFETIME."

 

[RF Overlord]

"The Day After The Warranty Expires"

 

[The Critic]

Toyota recommends inspecting the condition of the automatic transmission fluid every 30,000 miles, and replacing the fluid at the first sign of sediment, discoloration, or unusual odor.

Under normal service conditions, if the fluid does not display any of the above signs (sediment, discoloration, or unusual odor) upon regular inspection, no fluid change is needed. However, under towing, the pan contents must be drained and refilled every 60,000 miles even if the fluid passes inspection. If the fluid appears discolored at say, 30,000 miles, it must be replaced even if it has not reached the scheduled service interval for towing.

Let’s just say that typically, Toyota’s T-IV and WS fluids have a tendency to discolor quite badly after 60-80k miles and tend to require a replacement at that point, even under normal service. A drain and refill requires a $45 gallon of Toyota WS and ½ hr of labor.

 

[ib516]

Quote:

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Define "LIFETIME."

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The trans apparently has no dipstick or fill tube. I guess as far as Toyota is concerned you don't even need to check it?

 

[ib516]

Quote:

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Toyota recommends inspecting the condition of the automatic transmission fluid every 30,000 miles, and replacing the fluid at the first sign of sediment, discoloration, or unusual odor.


Under normal service conditions, if the fluid does not display any of the above signs (sediment, discoloration, or unusual odor) upon regular inspection, no fluid change is needed. However, under towing, the pan contents must be drained and refilled every 60,000 miles even if the fluid passes inspection. If the fluid appears discolored at say, 30,000 miles, it must be replaced even if it has not reached the scheduled service interval for towing.

Let’s just say that typically, Toyota’s T-IV and WS fluids have a tendency to discolor quite badly after 60-80k miles and tend to require a replacement at that point, even under normal service. A drain and refill requires a $45 gallon of Toyota WS and ½ hr of labor.

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Is that from the new Tundra manual? From what I read, they say the transmission fluid does not need service. Hard to check it's condition if there's no dipstick.

 

[okiedokie]

Maybe it some kind of new technology OLM indicator that shows a different color, like amber for sediment, red for discloloration, blinking red for unusual odor, accompanied by an annoying buzzer when two or more of these conditions are present?

Ooops, lifetime's over, pay the repair man.

 

[JHZR2]

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Quote:

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Define "LIFETIME."

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The trans apparently has no dipstick or fill tube. I guess as far as Toyota is concerned you don't even need to check it?

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If that is the case, then this truck is no work truck and not even a viable utilitarian vehicle.

As far as "lifetime" in a vehicle that DOES have a dipstick, saying lifetime is no different than saying "100k" fill, which is what my Chevy pickup came with... because to joe consumer, 100k is more than lifetime for a vehicle...

JMH

 

[JohnBrowning]

Do not belive it. Most Toyota's are good for 300,000-500,000 miles worth of use easy. Their is not a fluid made that can hold up to that. It always comes down to "who's" idea of lifetime is being used!!!

 

[brianl703]

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The trans apparently has no dipstick or fill tube. I guess as far as Toyota is concerned you don't even need to check it?

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If it's like the 4T40E from GM, it has a level checking plug and a cap you remove to fill it. You check it with the engine running. As far as checking the fluid level on a regular basis, that shouldn't be required unless there's a leak and then it ought to be pretty obvious and should be repaired.

 

[brianl703]

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If that is the case, then this truck is no work truck and not even a viable utilitarian vehicle.

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How so? Manual transmissions typically do not have a dipstick. I don't see what the problem is if this transmission is like the 4T40E. Lack of a dipstick keeps dipsticks from putting Type F into it.

 

[ted s]

my 66 newport owners manual says under normal conditions the transmissiont fuild never needs to be changed.

 

[brianl703]

My 06 Saab 93 owner's manual says the coolant never needs to be changed. I don't believe it. It's Dex-Cool..which in any other vehicle is a 150,000 mile, 5-year coolant.

 

[2Fast4U]

So basically Toyota is going to have another truck recall in the short future.

 

[JHZR2]

saab coolant is not dex cool... Ill have to review my records, but at least for my 04, the gallon I bought (just to do tiny swaps from time to time, which I do on all my cars) was not dex cool, but an orange colored coolant of some other sort.

As I said, Ill have to review my records to see how I determined it.

Anyway, as to an AT vehicle with no dipstick or fill tube not being a viable work truck or utilitartian vehicle, it is very simple...

Most vehicles tat are purpose-specific, like pickup trucks, get varied use with one constant - there will be SOME load.

As the world moves awa from generic number-based maintenance to things like condition-based maintenance, it is ever more important to be able to have easy access to a sump of lubricant to pull samples, or at least review color and smell.

For joe consumer's tundra, which never sees more than a load of groceries in the bed, lifetime fill without checking might be A-OK... However, for a wok vehicle or utilitarian vehicle, which will be loaded, will be towing, and will be used like a truck, it is absolutely necessary to be able to gauge things in a convenient way.

The fact that the tundra does not have this tells me that its AT-equipped (is that all) vehicles are not assumed to be real HD, hard-use vehicles, but rather full size trucks for style-conscious texans and whatnot, whose fullsize pickup is not necessarily used (like my female cousin in Houston), and whose bed is never filled with anything heavy or that a sedan couldnt handle...

Now, if Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. give me an AT that has no dipstick or way to sample for maintenance, etc., Ill say that the drivetrain is not really viable for HD use either... But so far, the only transmissions other than the Tundra, that I have seen such a setup upon, have been LD cars.

Put LD car design into a fullsize truck, and youre behind, regardless of the size of the ring gear or rotor (per their commercial).

JMH

 

[The Critic]

100-150k is considered lifetime for most automatics depending on the severity of service. GM is targeting 200k with their new six-speed automatics but that's an industry breakthrough.

The transmission uses a fill plug coupled with an overflow tube fluid level check system that is similar to a toilet tank.

Take a deep breath...JMH.

This system is no big deal. In fact, I much prefer it to the dipstick.

 

[BearZDefect]

Most 'trucks' in this country are rarely or never used as trucks, just as you describe, JHM: "whose bed is never filled with anything heavy or that a sedan couldnt handle." And the most they'll tow is a few hundred pound trailer to buy yard chips, soil, etc, once a year.

Those who really need to use their truck for truck duties and are ready to pay will seek something like a Cummins on a HD chassis. If they buy an AT with that they must expect to rebuild it during the truck's lifetime.

Yes, that's all just my opinion.

 

[TeeDub]

Well to be fair, OTR trucks have been routinely running 500,000 mile changes of synthetic gear lubes in their axles/transmissions for a number of years. Of course these have much larger sump capacities and magnets to keep the larger bits of iron from circulating.

I'd say a complete change of fluid every 75k in a passenger vehicle automatic would be warranted and perhaps every 50k if do much towing/hauling. I've run the Amsoil synthetic ATF for 100k miles and it still looks very clean, but I'm not towing a fifth wheel with my Audi sedan.

 

[TeeDub]

JMH,

Is my friend Terry Dyson one of those "Style conscious Texans" you refer to??? LOL!!!

Ted