New Tires on Front or back?

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Sorry but I want the new ones up front! New ones less likely to blow out and if it does blow out, you can't steer a car with the back wheels only forklifts.

Now ask yourself this: What is a typical driver more likely to experience while driving: a tire blow out or spin out due to loss of traction?

A tire blow out is typically a result of neglect that can be easily avoided: check your tire pressure regularly and don't drive on 20-year-old rotten rubber.

In my 20 years of driving, I've spun out on a number of occasions. I have never experienced a blow out. Other drivers' experience may have been different. But at the end of the day, you should ensure that you have a tire in good condition on every corner, and one in the trunk as well.



I disagree here, based on my experience. I've had several times that tires spin and it's always been on the drive axle, usually when going from stop to gas or uphill. I've had 3 blowouts and none came from neglect or old tires. Having a blowout on the rear is definitely easier to manage.

My understanding and rational reasoning is they come up with the idea of new tires on rear because most people don't know how to drive for the conditions. I think tire manufacturer lawyers are the first to write these kinds of recommendations. If people were more aware and slowed down, they would never be in a situation of skidding or hydroplaning.
 
I don't drive hard (18 slow miles a day) and don't put many miles on it in the course of a year so I think I will just leave them for now. Out of the four, I said keep the two best and put them on the back.

I don't know the tire tread, but I know they were starting to wear.

Thanks for all the input.
 
Interesting-the only time I ever had trouble with the rear spinning out with FWD was on my old Civic wagon with STUDS on the front & all-seasons on the rear. IMHO if you keep them rotated so they wear evenly you shouldn't have a problem-but if you run winter you'd better run all 4, not just 2. RWD is a different story-studs or winter plus weight over the drive axle takes care of winter!
 
Most of my tires have only 1 or 2/32nd difference between any of them as I keep'em rotated. And during the winter time is when I am most concerned especially for "starting out" traction(getting a grip from a dead stop on snow/ice). So, I want a bit more bite on the front(FWD). I haven't driven a RWD in the SNOW in over 25 years and I don't want to!

Also, I don't drive with tires that have less than 3-4/32nds during any time of the year or I should say, I'll start looking for tires around that time(3-4/32nds). So, because I usually have nearly as good tread depth on the rear as on the front, I don't typically feel the rear swinging out in the wet weather(in a turn). I have had the rear swing out in the snow/ice even with brand new tires all'round but, was in control. It is what it is!
 
The tire professionals always say, not to use different brand tires(even if the same size) on the front and rear on an AWD vehicle. I beleive if a preson is a responsible driver and is always aware of this on their vehicle, they'll be just fine.

I beleive that a responsible driver knowing what's going on with their vehicle and on the highway can do just about anything. I have driven a FWD car with 3 different brands of tires(although the same size). Maybe it's not optimal but, it worked well for me. I kept the same two on the front and the two different ones on the rear. They were all in very good shape!

I usually put the 2 best tires on the front and keep'em rotated as to keep the tires wearing evenly so that I can replace all 4 at the same time. The only time I'll buy two tires is if I'm not keeping the car much longer and I need to get by for a while.

What about someone who really knows how their vehicle handles/reacts on dry roads, foul weather, around corners, on snow & ice or in the wet or dry braking. There are those people who like a different tire on the front and different tires on the back(all brand new tires) but different gripping tires for a better balanced vehicle. Let's say; a better steering responce tires on the front and a really grippy tire on the rear so that the rear never swings out ?????

I realize that these professionals that come up with all of these scenarios for how vehicles react and how we should equip our vehicles, and are taking into consideration that most people don't pay attention when they're driving. That's why we now have ABS/Traction Control and eveything in between, to eliminate human error.

I in particular don't like ABS on ice but I do like TC on ice And you can't have one without the other(I guess!)
 
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Sorry but I want the new ones up front! New ones less likely to blow out and if it does blow out, you can't steer a car with the back wheels only forklifts.

Now ask yourself this: What is a typical driver more likely to experience while driving: a tire blow out or spin out due to loss of traction?

A tire blow out is typically a result of neglect that can be easily avoided: check your tire pressure regularly and don't drive on 20-year-old rotten rubber.

In my 20 years of driving, I've spun out on a number of occasions. I have never experienced a blow out. Other drivers' experience may have been different. But at the end of the day, you should ensure that you have a tire in good condition on every corner, and one in the trunk as well.



I disagree here, based on my experience. I've had several times that tires spin and it's always been on the drive axle, usually when going from stop to gas or uphill. I've had 3 blowouts and none came from neglect or old tires. Having a blowout on the rear is definitely easier to manage.

My understanding and rational reasoning is they come up with the idea of new tires on rear because most people don't know how to drive for the conditions. I think tire manufacturer lawyers are the first to write these kinds of recommendations. If people were more aware and slowed down, they would never be in a situation of skidding or hydroplaning.


Tires spinning from loss of traction = no big deal.

Car spinning from loss of control = crash.

You should mount the tires to avoid the crash due to loss of control...and learn to handle the bit of wheelspin yourself...

Watch the videos and see the effect of better traction on the front. Allow the facts of objective testing to penetrate the pre-conceptions of your experience...and realize that the OP lives in snow country, so we're not just talking about hydroplaning...we're talking about snow performance in which tread depth is critical.

Or ignore the facts and just keep doing it your way...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Sorry but I want the new ones up front! New ones less likely to blow out and if it does blow out, you can't steer a car with the back wheels only forklifts.

Now ask yourself this: What is a typical driver more likely to experience while driving: a tire blow out or spin out due to loss of traction?

A tire blow out is typically a result of neglect that can be easily avoided: check your tire pressure regularly and don't drive on 20-year-old rotten rubber.

In my 20 years of driving, I've spun out on a number of occasions. I have never experienced a blow out. Other drivers' experience may have been different. But at the end of the day, you should ensure that you have a tire in good condition on every corner, and one in the trunk as well.



I disagree here, based on my experience. I've had several times that tires spin and it's always been on the drive axle, usually when going from stop to gas or uphill. I've had 3 blowouts and none came from neglect or old tires. Having a blowout on the rear is definitely easier to manage.

My understanding and rational reasoning is they come up with the idea of new tires on rear because most people don't know how to drive for the conditions. I think tire manufacturer lawyers are the first to write these kinds of recommendations. If people were more aware and slowed down, they would never be in a situation of skidding or hydroplaning.


Tires spinning from loss of traction = no big deal.

Car spinning from loss of control = crash.

You should mount the tires to avoid the crash due to loss of control...and learn to handle the bit of wheelspin yourself...

Watch the videos and see the effect of better traction on the front. Allow the facts of objective testing to penetrate the pre-conceptions of your experience...and realize that the OP lives in snow country, so we're not just talking about hydroplaning...we're talking about snow performance in which tread depth is critical.

Or ignore the facts and just keep doing it your way...


Those videos have been around a long time. I've watched several and I still slap my forehead when I see them again. Who takes sweeping turns at that speed? What are they trying to prove, other than stupidity?

I think I WILL keep doing it my way. I drive to the conditions, not the preconceived idiocy of those videos.
 
well around here you have dry roads then snow from blowing on the interstate. I dont recommend driving 25 on the highway you would probably get rearended.

And I wouldnt call the videos idiocy.

With snow plows and wind you can get into unexpected conditions quick.. esp in the great lakes snow belt.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Tires spinning from loss of traction = no big deal.

Car spinning from loss of control = crash.

You should mount the tires to avoid the crash due to loss of control...and learn to handle the bit of wheelspin yourself...

Plus, that little bit of wheel spin when accelerating is actually a good nudge to hold your horses and drive slower. But if you have better tires on the front of a FWD, it may help you get going more easily, or too easily, thus building a false sense of security and overconfidence. "Hey, I accelerated so easily, so it must not be that bad out there!" And then you get surprised when it's time to make a turn at that speed...
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I prefer 4 new tires for safety.


That is ideal. Although on my Volvo I have no option but to do 4 at a time.


According the guys who manufacture your AWD system, you do. The Haldex Gen III is supposedly tolerant to up to an 8% differential in tire size, and having the DEM function explained to me by a guy @ Haldex, this makes perfect sense. I know it says otherwise in the owner's manual, but that's right from the horse's mouth. I did put new tires on the front, and I had no AWD issues doing this--but if you're paranoid you could even pull the PID info and send it to a laptop while you're driving. It'll tell you wheel speed and pressure at the Haldex pump.

I put them on the front just to get them to wear in more quickly to match the rears--but the rears were only worn about 2mm at the time, and I did it in the summer. They guys at Discout Tire made me sign something saying that it wasn't their fault if I killed myself. They're now pretty even on wear so that I can rotate them and keep them about the same tread depth.
 
Anyone else notice the disbelievers are mostly those from non-snow and ice areas? (Not all, just most of them). Must be one of those things that some practical experience in snow and ice conditions teaches...
 
It is true that it's possible to get better cornering performance with a mis-matched set of tires by putting the grippier ones on the front to reduce understeer. Every modern street car that I know of, other than a Lotus Elise/Exige, will understeer under steady cornering because it's stable, predictable, and easy to control; you just let off the throttle or even brake lightly to gain traction in the front. The more aggressive suspension setups, including that of my FWD Mazda3, will oversteer a little in both summer and winter during throttle lift or trail braking because of weight transfer. The more grip, the more weight transfer, so it's predictable and doesn't happen nearly as dramatically under low traction conditions.

If you want to set your car up to oversteer only under certain low-traction conditions, then you better keep your foot on the throttle using delicate inputs and be extremely quick with the countersteering when it happens. Professional racers instantly countersteer as quickly as they're physically capable of moving their hands just based on the feel of the car when it steps out, but even they regularly spin out when water on the track causes only the back end to hydroplane. Here's a guy in an Elise who, in dry weather, lifted off the throttle just a little bit and didn't have the muscle memory to automatically reapply the throttle and countersteer quickly when the back unweighted. It shows why no street car that is primarily intended for public roads is set up that way.



Here's some good info from a driving instructor who actually races:

"Nearly everything money can buy, from the Chevrolet Cavalier to the Ferrari 458 Italia, has designed-in understeer. If you want designed-in oversteer, you will have to go racing. I set my Plymouth Neon race car up with narrower tires in back, 650-pound rear springs, a big swaybar, and rear toe-out. When I turn into a corner, the back end steps out naturally. If I do not correct it a tiny bit, the car will crash. Do you want a car which will crash in any turn where you do not apply the proper amount of high-speed correction? No you don’t. For the record, I don’t want it either, but when you race against Miatas and Civics that have a foot less wheelbase than you do, something has to be done to keep you from falling back in faster corners."

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/07/trackday-diaries-distraction-the-street-steer-mindset/

Even that suspension setup would be better than having significantly worse tires on the back because at least it would remain predictable in all conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I prefer 4 new tires for safety.


That is ideal. Although on my Volvo I have no option but to do 4 at a time.


According the guys who manufacture your AWD system, you do. The Haldex Gen III is supposedly tolerant to up to an 8% differential in tire size, and having the DEM function explained to me by a guy @ Haldex, this makes perfect sense. I know it says otherwise in the owner's manual, but that's right from the horse's mouth. I did put new tires on the front, and I had no AWD issues doing this--but if you're paranoid you could even pull the PID info and send it to a laptop while you're driving. It'll tell you wheel speed and pressure at the Haldex pump.

I put them on the front just to get them to wear in more quickly to match the rears--but the rears were only worn about 2mm at the time, and I did it in the summer. They guys at Discout Tire made me sign something saying that it wasn't their fault if I killed myself. They're now pretty even on wear so that I can rotate them and keep them about the same tread depth.


Interesting... Not gonna chance it though. I don't like mixing tires on the same vehicle. All 4 have to be the same brand and model for me.
 
I don't blame you, and generally I don't like running different tires either (it was a temporary thing on my part, as I couldn't bring myself to ditch the rears yet as they had some life in them). Plus, I'm driving a Freestyle...

Mainly I mention it so that you don't worry about torching your bevel gear if you get a flat. The temporary donut fits well within the 8% parameter. That's the main reason I checked. My P1 V70R would have torched the bevel gear in short order with the donut spare, but it wasn't electronically-controlled like the P2's. There's a lot of misinformation floating around the Volvo boards on this since folks hear lots of anecdotes about the P1's--but it's a totally different system.
 
Originally Posted By: coopns
2 new tires on Camry today. They recommended back, but I though Front Wheel Drive, put them on the front.

Town Fair were good to match price with tiretrack on a new Hankook tire but got me on balancing/stem which I think are typically free if bought there.


Here in South Florida, where the roads are straight as an arrow, there are no sweeping corners and only the occasional "off ramp" to deal with. Putting fresh tires on the front helps deal with the heavy rain and standing water we have.

In fact, many serious accidents occur on the highways, while at speed and the car hydroplanes. Resulting in an uncontrollable crash.

Installing the new tires on the front absolutely helps reduce the hydroplaning risk at highway speeds. As the tires move the water out of the way of the rears quite effectively.

Remember, this is a local issue and does not apply to other areas of the country, world, solar system or universe.
 
Those videos have been around a long time. I've watched several and I still slap my forehead when I see them again. Who takes sweeping turns at that speed? What are they trying to prove, other than stupidity?

I think I WILL keep doing it my way. I drive to the conditions, not the preconceived idiocy of those videos.[/quote]

This is how inexperienced driver drive. I do see it all the time.

Coming from my sisters house, and at the end of her street, I was at a STOP sign as I was waiting for a car to pass. This car was traveling too fast for the neighborhood and there was an "S" in the street though not a large "S".

A young guy(early 20's) driving too fast on the cell phone and there was snow on the ground. The car went straight even though he was turning for the "S" in the street. He drove straight into someones lawn/bottom of the deiveway area. We got out to help push him out of the snowbank he landed in. His front tires had little tread.

This is just a quick story and a bit about the tread on the tires and a bit about the terrable driving habbits of people. I swear, people are driving worst these days. It's awful. It's like nobody really knows how to drive a vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
I don't blame you, and generally I don't like running different tires either (it was a temporary thing on my part, as I couldn't bring myself to ditch the rears yet as they had some life in them). Plus, I'm driving a Freestyle...

Mainly I mention it so that you don't worry about torching your bevel gear if you get a flat. The temporary donut fits well within the 8% parameter. That's the main reason I checked. My P1 V70R would have torched the bevel gear in short order with the donut spare, but it wasn't electronically-controlled like the P2's. There's a lot of misinformation floating around the Volvo boards on this since folks hear lots of anecdotes about the P1's--but it's a totally different system.


At the risk of going OT...the early P2s, like mine, still had a viscous coupling. haldex came in '03 for the XC. So, for my '02 XC - I keep the tread depth within 2mm...
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Anyone else notice the disbelievers are mostly those from non-snow and ice areas? (Not all, just most of them). Must be one of those things that some practical experience in snow and ice conditions teaches...


Agreed. Snow and ice is such an extreme condition where the traction differential really shows. Even heavy wet rain still is not as extreme.

My learning experience was replacing the front two summer tires on a VW Jetta GLI with two slightly used winter tires against the tire installers advice 20 years back. The rear end would actually sway left-right quickly even at speed. Stopping and turning was constant fishtailing all over or complete 180's.

The car was actually safer and more predictable with summer tires than the setup it had.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal


Interesting... Not gonna chance it though. I don't like mixing tires on the same vehicle. All 4 have to be the same brand and model for me.


You don't like wearing mismatched socks either.
 
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