Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I want to note something here. I am not mentioning this as a moderator, but as a member.
Most of this banter is moot, because there is no application specific to the conversration; we have NO idea what the products would be used in, nor for how long. This topic is typical of a BITOG thread; all talk and no constraint.
Here's a perfect example:
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I get M1 0w40 for $6.79/qt, and RT6 for $5.00/qt at my local Meijer. I think it would be worth the extra $9 for an oil change to get the added benefit of a 0W oil for winter use. Since you're putting it in a gasoline engine, it will be fine.
Great. But under what pretext for what application?
This thread started about a new HDEO product for uber-cold markets. Now it's droned into contrasting T6 to a non-HDEO lube (M1 0w-40). OK - the M1 0w-40 is "CF" rated, but that's practially worthless to a typical diesel we'd see in use here. That is WAY different than the new Rotella 0w-40 of the OPs interest.
On top of that, just how is the M1 "better" than T6? Until you define the operating condtions and maintenance plan, you have no ability to define what "better" really means. Is it "better" in that it makes you sleep well at night? Probably. But just what application has it proven itself to be "better" with reduced wear to a degree that can be PROVEN with statistical evidence, showing the ROI has been met or exceeded? You made the statment; show me the proof, please.
Reminds me of an analogy I have used here in the past. There is the quintisential debate in the hunting world about which is the "better" hunting round (.308win vs. .30-06). Both are fine rounds, sending similar bullets down range at similar velocities. There are mutliple choices for bullet weight, design and speed that confound the debate. But you have to ask youself this; in what application would one be "better"? Because they are both, in fact, complete overkill for hunting squirrel!
And so goes this topic you two have raised about M1 0w-40 and T6. One isn't even qualified as an HDEO applicable to today's market, and they both likely are WAY over-qualified for a normal OCI application in a gasser. Harman is willing to pay an extra $9 for an oil that is likely way more than he needs, and where any number of lesser costly lubes would perform fine. Between the T6 and M1, they both are a waste; one is just a bigger waste than the other. I FULLY AND COMPLETELY REALIZE AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO AS YOU SEE FIT, but that does not make it a rational decision. Gassers don't "need" HDEOs, period. Do they work well? Sure they do, but that can be said of a whole slew of other market choices.
I see the OPs signature line and I note that he uses premium syns for his two gasser applications, in reasonably normal OCI durations. That is overkill. Folks, it does not get THAT cold in his area where a 0w-40 HDEO (the product of interest to him) would be a necessity. Nearly everyone here is fulfilling my prophesey; they are jumping onto the newest offering, with no idea how to decide if it's a rational choice (or at least no outward evidence of such).
There is a HUGE difference between what can work, and what is "best". "Best" can only be proven with a lot of dedication and time and money; it takes a lot of resources and determination to accurately define what is "best" in any application.
Unless you choose to define "best" as what makes you sleep well at night, knowing that there are no measurables other than your REM sleep.
I have to agree with you, Newton. I have a 480 cu engine in my car. It may sit for 2 weeks at a time in -10 degree ambient temps. When I was using Mobil1 15-50 in it, it still started at -10. It was a little slow at that temp which is why I switched over to Rotella T6 a few years ago. Yes, it does turn over slower in the dead of winter but a 5-40 weight works just fine in extremely cold temps.
I think the "0" weight stuff is being developed just to "market" a new product that, as you say, would only benefit those in the most extreme cold weather climates. Like Alaska and Canada. As a matter of fact I know a journeyman mechanic that lives in Canada and he "still" uses 15-40 dino in all his cars and they are not all stored indoors. He's never had a mechanical failure with any of them due to the oil he uses.
The key is warm it up before you take off in it which is what I have done with every car I've ever owned. Even if it takes 15 or 20 minutes.
