New/Old F1 guy?
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Originally Posted By: billt460
You're the one who brought CNN into this to support your narrative.
I brought CNN in as an example of my viewing habits, and don't forget I also mentioned our Canadian equivalents. I don't watch them, either, or the Weather Network. Each of these companies' web sites is more useful to me than their TV channels. Heck, even look at any live major press conference. At one time, the only place to watch such an event was CNN. Then the competition came out, so there were, let's say, two other alternatives. So, the viewership for CNN for that particular press conference is pared down. With the net, that even gets worse. Up here alone, if there's a major press conference of some sort, I can find five channels simulcasting it, rather than simply CNN like many years ago. And, if I want to watch, I don't have to be at the TV, either.
For F1's total viewership decline, take a look at how it was brought to Europeans, and the UK in specific. Bernie pushed all these TV deals. It became available all over the place, and in many places on free TV. When it started disappearing from free TV in the UK, what would you guess happened to total viewership? We went through the same thing here with hockey, with the public provider unable/unwilling to continue running hockey (just like happened with F1 in the UK).
This is it in a nutshell: Total TV viewership in the States dropped something like 8% from 2016 to 2017. If you think that's something that can be solved by improving content, you and the network execs can have at it. When no one I know under 30 has picked up a cable or satellite subscription, there's serious trouble brewing.
Cable providers are trying to throttle internet connections for streaming services for a reason, and it's not because content is going to improve viewership. They want to plug the proverbial hole in the dam with a finger. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to provide the best content they can, but the days of having 1/3 or more of all American families tune in en masse on a Tuesday night to watch the same TV series are long, long over.
Liberty (and NASCAR for that matter) have to concentrate on filling the seats. F1 doesn't have a huge problem with that, at least in the key venues. Offer streaming on many platforms. Provide exposure to young people in their platforms of choice. A big TV deal is simply gravy now, and cannot be relied upon.
You're the one who brought CNN into this to support your narrative.
I brought CNN in as an example of my viewing habits, and don't forget I also mentioned our Canadian equivalents. I don't watch them, either, or the Weather Network. Each of these companies' web sites is more useful to me than their TV channels. Heck, even look at any live major press conference. At one time, the only place to watch such an event was CNN. Then the competition came out, so there were, let's say, two other alternatives. So, the viewership for CNN for that particular press conference is pared down. With the net, that even gets worse. Up here alone, if there's a major press conference of some sort, I can find five channels simulcasting it, rather than simply CNN like many years ago. And, if I want to watch, I don't have to be at the TV, either.
For F1's total viewership decline, take a look at how it was brought to Europeans, and the UK in specific. Bernie pushed all these TV deals. It became available all over the place, and in many places on free TV. When it started disappearing from free TV in the UK, what would you guess happened to total viewership? We went through the same thing here with hockey, with the public provider unable/unwilling to continue running hockey (just like happened with F1 in the UK).
This is it in a nutshell: Total TV viewership in the States dropped something like 8% from 2016 to 2017. If you think that's something that can be solved by improving content, you and the network execs can have at it. When no one I know under 30 has picked up a cable or satellite subscription, there's serious trouble brewing.
Cable providers are trying to throttle internet connections for streaming services for a reason, and it's not because content is going to improve viewership. They want to plug the proverbial hole in the dam with a finger. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to provide the best content they can, but the days of having 1/3 or more of all American families tune in en masse on a Tuesday night to watch the same TV series are long, long over.
Liberty (and NASCAR for that matter) have to concentrate on filling the seats. F1 doesn't have a huge problem with that, at least in the key venues. Offer streaming on many platforms. Provide exposure to young people in their platforms of choice. A big TV deal is simply gravy now, and cannot be relied upon.
I won't argue the fact that fewer people are watching television across the board. And while that may be the reason for some of the decline in F1 viewership, there is no way it can factor into 200 MILLION fewer viewers in just a decade. It just can't. Remember, you are talking about an average 20 MILLION viewers a year dropping off. As I said, show me any other televised show or venue that has taken that hard of a hit, in that amount of time. If they did we would be looking at test patterns instead of programs.
You have to look at percentages, too. Yes, I can give you comparable drop offs, per capita, easily. Remember that F1 peaked at about 1 billion viewers. Losing 200 million over a decade is 20% over a decade. The total number is alarming, but the percentage drop is matched, and exceeded even, in other sports, genres, and TV in general. Note that TV lost 8% from year to year. What did that work out to over a decade? Hockey viewership went down by by a much greater percentage over a similar period. The NFL has fared worse, by percentage, Super Bowl excepted, of course.
Note that F1 is also a special case. Bernie, love him or hate him, had impeccable timing with TV. He sold TV deals all over the world, where they didn't exist before. He was exceedingly protective over TV rights, and sold everywhere and for very large dollars. And, when TV began its decline, he didn't stop. TV executives that had their heads buried in the sand about shrinking TV audiences, Bernie took them out back with a set of shears and fleeced them. TV executives that tried to sell him a bill of goods about TV being so strong, he called them on that, took them out back and sheared them, too. There are few things out there, bar perhaps World Cup, Wimbledon, and the Olympics, that have better global coverage than F1, and those three are events, rather than an ongoing season.
Bernie grew the heck out of F1 TV coverage, and it has nowhere to go but down in viewership when measured by TV ratings. TV deals will be expiring on an ongoing basis, and some simply will not be renewed. Some will be for less money. Liberty may find some that will pay more. In this day and age, though, increasing TV viewership from the peak that Bernie provided, mostly by pure salesmanship, will not be happening. F1's own streaming service will displace the loss of some TV deals, and will devalue others. Times are changing. Bernie jumped in at the right time and was pushed out at the right time.
Note that F1 is also a special case. Bernie, love him or hate him, had impeccable timing with TV. He sold TV deals all over the world, where they didn't exist before. He was exceedingly protective over TV rights, and sold everywhere and for very large dollars. And, when TV began its decline, he didn't stop. TV executives that had their heads buried in the sand about shrinking TV audiences, Bernie took them out back with a set of shears and fleeced them. TV executives that tried to sell him a bill of goods about TV being so strong, he called them on that, took them out back and sheared them, too. There are few things out there, bar perhaps World Cup, Wimbledon, and the Olympics, that have better global coverage than F1, and those three are events, rather than an ongoing season.
Bernie grew the heck out of F1 TV coverage, and it has nowhere to go but down in viewership when measured by TV ratings. TV deals will be expiring on an ongoing basis, and some simply will not be renewed. Some will be for less money. Liberty may find some that will pay more. In this day and age, though, increasing TV viewership from the peak that Bernie provided, mostly by pure salesmanship, will not be happening. F1's own streaming service will displace the loss of some TV deals, and will devalue others. Times are changing. Bernie jumped in at the right time and was pushed out at the right time.
I agree with you about Bernie. He was the best thing that ever happened to F1. Regardless of what you think of him.
He's the one who moved it from where I would get only 15 minutes a week of highlights, if I was lucky, to practice and qualification and race, to full preshows along with the rest. For that, I'm quite grateful.
Of course, some of the TV deals might have been a little too good, and we'll see some unravel, just like some of the individual races have. We already saw the BBC deal come apart at the seams, and it wasn't even at expiry. Deals ending or coming apart won't help viewership numbers in the least, either.
Of course, good TV deals did hamstring a few things. People talk about reverse grids and moving sessions about, consolidating others, separating others, and so forth. Bernie agreed to provide a certain amount of content on a Friday (or Thursday for Monaco), a certain amount on a Saturday, and a certain amount on a Sunday. Ideas like reverse grids get rather difficult when Saturday content has to be provided. Ironically, some of Bernie's iron clad TV rules have made it difficult to promote the sport in alternative ways, given that teams can't use race footage for publicity.
Of course, some of the TV deals might have been a little too good, and we'll see some unravel, just like some of the individual races have. We already saw the BBC deal come apart at the seams, and it wasn't even at expiry. Deals ending or coming apart won't help viewership numbers in the least, either.
Of course, good TV deals did hamstring a few things. People talk about reverse grids and moving sessions about, consolidating others, separating others, and so forth. Bernie agreed to provide a certain amount of content on a Friday (or Thursday for Monaco), a certain amount on a Saturday, and a certain amount on a Sunday. Ideas like reverse grids get rather difficult when Saturday content has to be provided. Ironically, some of Bernie's iron clad TV rules have made it difficult to promote the sport in alternative ways, given that teams can't use race footage for publicity.
I'm neither here nor there with it. At a live event and with a good vantage point, as it were, I could see the advantage. On TV, what good does it do me? You can flip to any channel in the bloated TV universe and spot a good looking woman.
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something. Like, yeah, it's weird that they did that, and unfortunate in many ways, but... seriously? This is what people are busting their veins about?
Just my take. No offense intended.
When Bernie sold F1 he saw the writing on the wall.
It's about cost. One team has 10 times the resources of another it usually will do well(not guaranteed). To balance this out more regulations. Spec series is a different type of racing. I feel F1 has learned some valuable lessons from its failures(they had some big ones).
NASCAR expanded too quickly. More seats should mean slightly lower ticket prices. Don't price yourself out of your own market.
People care less about driving then ever before. One may read about (example)steering feel but even less buyers care then in the past. Status hounds always existed but are more prevalent then before.
Racing schools seem on the decline. Two days in an open wheeler will most probably re-ignite the interest in all racing for even the most jaded, disappointed race enthusiast.
Video direction is same old. Straightaway? Let's use a long zoom and take away all sensation of speed for the viewer. There are options but same old angles. Cheap route is more on-board shots. Cameras already on cars.
When Bernie sold F1 he saw the writing on the wall.
It's about cost. One team has 10 times the resources of another it usually will do well(not guaranteed). To balance this out more regulations. Spec series is a different type of racing. I feel F1 has learned some valuable lessons from its failures(they had some big ones).
NASCAR expanded too quickly. More seats should mean slightly lower ticket prices. Don't price yourself out of your own market.
People care less about driving then ever before. One may read about (example)steering feel but even less buyers care then in the past. Status hounds always existed but are more prevalent then before.
Racing schools seem on the decline. Two days in an open wheeler will most probably re-ignite the interest in all racing for even the most jaded, disappointed race enthusiast.
Video direction is same old. Straightaway? Let's use a long zoom and take away all sensation of speed for the viewer. There are options but same old angles. Cheap route is more on-board shots. Cameras already on cars.
I only started closely following about 10 years ago, does that make me a new F1 guy or old F1 guy?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something.
What ticks off most people about all of this, is it has once again become a situation of someone else forcing what they think you should have or see for your own enjoyment. All of this anti grid girls, anti cheerleader, anti beauty pageant nonsense, is coming from ugly, liberal, women. Who all look like the south end of a horse going north. Or else men that have been neutered by these same women. Or else by liberal college professors that have convinced any and all of them it's wrong to act like a man. And masculinity is some type of dastardly trait that must be done away with at all costs in modern society.
All of a sudden we have to be, "gender neutral". Boys should be able to wear skirts, and use girls bathrooms. And God forbid if a man looks at a good looking woman, based on nothing but the fact she is good looking and dressed to thrill. He automatically becomes a chauvinistic pig, who can only see women for one thing, and one thing only.
It's gotten completely idiotic. Look at who is complaining about all of this. It's not the attractive women who are doing it. Or the men who enjoy coming to the races and looking at them. Or Formula 1. It's liberal women who would make people throw up if they dressed in the same outfits.
So as an outside force, they come barging into something they could care less about in the first place. Only to put political pressure on F1 to advance their social agenda.... Not the people who are buying the tickets and paying the freight. Or watching the racing on TV. Or buying the products from the companies who sponsor the grid girls in the first place.... A lot of which are beauty products that wouldn't do any of those broads any good anyway. Even if they purchased a boxcar load of it.
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something.
What ticks off most people about all of this, is it has once again become a situation of someone else forcing what they think you should have or see for your own enjoyment. All of this anti grid girls, anti cheerleader, anti beauty pageant nonsense, is coming from ugly, liberal, women. Who all look like the south end of a horse going north. Or else men that have been neutered by these same women. Or else by liberal college professors that have convinced any and all of them it's wrong to act like a man. And masculinity is some type of dastardly trait that must be done away with at all costs in modern society.
All of a sudden we have to be, "gender neutral". Boys should be able to wear skirts, and use girls bathrooms. And God forbid if a man looks at a good looking woman, based on nothing but the fact she is good looking and dressed to thrill. He automatically becomes a chauvinistic pig, who can only see women for one thing, and one thing only.
It's gotten completely idiotic. Look at who is complaining about all of this. It's not the attractive women who are doing it. Or the men who enjoy coming to the races and looking at them. Or Formula 1. It's liberal women who would make people throw up if they dressed in the same outfits.
So as an outside force, they come barging into something they could care less about in the first place. Only to put political pressure on F1 to advance their social agenda.... Not the people who are buying the tickets and paying the freight. Or watching the racing on TV. Or buying the products from the companies who sponsor the grid girls in the first place.... A lot of which are beauty products that wouldn't do any of those broads any good anyway. Even if they purchased a boxcar load of it.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something.
What ticks most people off about all of this, is it has once again become a situation of someone else forcing what they think you should have or see for your own enjoyment. All of this anti grid girls, anti cheerleader, anti beauty pageant nonsense, is coming from ugly, liberal, women. Who all look like the south end of a horse going north. Or else men that have been neutered by these same women. Or else by liberal college professors that have convinced any and all of them it's wrong to act like a man. And masculinity is some type of dastardly trait that must be done away with at all costs in modern society.
All of a sudden we have to be, "gender neutral". Boys should be able to wear skirts, and use girls bathrooms. And God forbid if a man looks at a good looking woman, based on nothing but the fact she is good looking and dressed to thrill. He automatically becomes a chauvinistic pig, who can only see women for one thing, and one thing only.
It's gotten completely idiotic. Look at who is complaining about all of this. It's not the attractive women who are doing it. Or the men who enjoy coming to the races and looking at them. Or Formula 1. It's liberal women who would make people throw up if they dressed in the same outfits. So they as an outside force, they come barging into something they could care less about in the first place. Only to put political pressure on F1 to advance their social agenda.... Not the people who are buying the tickets and paying the freight. Or watching the racing on TV. Or buying the products from the companies who sponsor the grid girls in the first place.... A lot of which are beauty products that wouldn't do any of those broads any good anyway. Even if they purchased a boxcar load of it.
This is exactly the kind of hysteria that I'm saying strikes me as so silly.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something.
What ticks most people off about all of this, is it has once again become a situation of someone else forcing what they think you should have or see for your own enjoyment. All of this anti grid girls, anti cheerleader, anti beauty pageant nonsense, is coming from ugly, liberal, women. Who all look like the south end of a horse going north. Or else men that have been neutered by these same women. Or else by liberal college professors that have convinced any and all of them it's wrong to act like a man. And masculinity is some type of dastardly trait that must be done away with at all costs in modern society.
All of a sudden we have to be, "gender neutral". Boys should be able to wear skirts, and use girls bathrooms. And God forbid if a man looks at a good looking woman, based on nothing but the fact she is good looking and dressed to thrill. He automatically becomes a chauvinistic pig, who can only see women for one thing, and one thing only.
It's gotten completely idiotic. Look at who is complaining about all of this. It's not the attractive women who are doing it. Or the men who enjoy coming to the races and looking at them. Or Formula 1. It's liberal women who would make people throw up if they dressed in the same outfits. So they as an outside force, they come barging into something they could care less about in the first place. Only to put political pressure on F1 to advance their social agenda.... Not the people who are buying the tickets and paying the freight. Or watching the racing on TV. Or buying the products from the companies who sponsor the grid girls in the first place.... A lot of which are beauty products that wouldn't do any of those broads any good anyway. Even if they purchased a boxcar load of it.
This is exactly the kind of hysteria that I'm saying strikes me as so silly.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
This is exactly the kind of hysteria that I'm saying strikes me as so silly.
It's not "hysteria" as you so like to call it. It's fact that doesn't sit well with most people. Myself included. But I can understand your point if you couldn't care less about what's going on around you.
This is exactly the kind of hysteria that I'm saying strikes me as so silly.
It's not "hysteria" as you so like to call it. It's fact that doesn't sit well with most people. Myself included. But I can understand your point if you couldn't care less about what's going on around you.
In that case, substitute the word "hysteria" with whatever it is that causes people to wail and gnash their teeth and write bile-filled text walls about it. Whatever you want to call that, that's what I'm talking about.
It's precisely my knowledge of what's going on in the world that makes me think this is a really silly thing to get exercised about. There's so much more to worry about. Why this?
It's precisely my knowledge of what's going on in the world that makes me think this is a really silly thing to get exercised about. There's so much more to worry about. Why this?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
There's so much more to worry about. Why this?
It's not a question of "worrying about it". It's not liking or wanting to accept other people controlling what you can see or enjoy. You appear to be OK with others controlling that. I'm not. Why is that so hard for you to absorb? No one is saying you have to forget about starving people. Or whatever else out there you choose to lose sleep over.
There's so much more to worry about. Why this?
It's not a question of "worrying about it". It's not liking or wanting to accept other people controlling what you can see or enjoy. You appear to be OK with others controlling that. I'm not. Why is that so hard for you to absorb? No one is saying you have to forget about starving people. Or whatever else out there you choose to lose sleep over.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something.
What ticks off most people about all of this, is it has once again become a situation of someone else forcing what they think you should have or see for your own enjoyment. All of this anti grid girls, anti cheerleader, anti beauty pageant nonsense, is coming from ugly, liberal, women. Who all look like the south end of a horse going north. Or else men that have been neutered by these same women. Or else by liberal college professors that have convinced any and all of them it's wrong to act like a man. And masculinity is some type of dastardly trait that must be done away with at all costs in modern society.
All of a sudden we have to be, "gender neutral". Boys should be able to wear skirts, and use girls bathrooms. And God forbid if a man looks at a good looking woman, based on nothing but the fact she is good looking and dressed to thrill. He automatically becomes a chauvinistic pig, who can only see women for one thing, and one thing only.
It's gotten completely idiotic. Look at who is complaining about all of this. It's not the attractive women who are doing it. Or the men who enjoy coming to the races and looking at them. Or Formula 1. It's liberal women who would make people throw up if they dressed in the same outfits.
So as an outside force, they come barging into something they could care less about in the first place. Only to put political pressure on F1 to advance their social agenda.... Not the people who are buying the tickets and paying the freight. Or watching the racing on TV. Or buying the products from the companies who sponsor the grid girls in the first place.... A lot of which are beauty products that wouldn't do any of those broads any good anyway. Even if they purchased a boxcar load of it.
Words of wisdom. Respect.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still can't fathom the hysteria over grid girls. Every time I hear people rant about them, I feel like I'm watching people grab pitchforks and torches because Six Flags banned funnel cakes or something.
What ticks off most people about all of this, is it has once again become a situation of someone else forcing what they think you should have or see for your own enjoyment. All of this anti grid girls, anti cheerleader, anti beauty pageant nonsense, is coming from ugly, liberal, women. Who all look like the south end of a horse going north. Or else men that have been neutered by these same women. Or else by liberal college professors that have convinced any and all of them it's wrong to act like a man. And masculinity is some type of dastardly trait that must be done away with at all costs in modern society.
All of a sudden we have to be, "gender neutral". Boys should be able to wear skirts, and use girls bathrooms. And God forbid if a man looks at a good looking woman, based on nothing but the fact she is good looking and dressed to thrill. He automatically becomes a chauvinistic pig, who can only see women for one thing, and one thing only.
It's gotten completely idiotic. Look at who is complaining about all of this. It's not the attractive women who are doing it. Or the men who enjoy coming to the races and looking at them. Or Formula 1. It's liberal women who would make people throw up if they dressed in the same outfits.
So as an outside force, they come barging into something they could care less about in the first place. Only to put political pressure on F1 to advance their social agenda.... Not the people who are buying the tickets and paying the freight. Or watching the racing on TV. Or buying the products from the companies who sponsor the grid girls in the first place.... A lot of which are beauty products that wouldn't do any of those broads any good anyway. Even if they purchased a boxcar load of it.
Words of wisdom. Respect.
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