New car: E60 M5, 2013 S4, or IS-F

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As I had posted about recently, I am selling my 2005 Audi S4 sedan. I've been shopping aggressively lately, and this weekend was a culmination.


2008 BMW M5
"The ultimate driving machine" really does apply. The M5 is just a joy to drive in almost every way. The motor really does live up to the hype: it's a screamer but still provides adequate power at low RPM. What I really love about it is the split-personality: it is very quiet and rides well around town with the EDC in "normal".

However, the reviews were correct: the SMG is not as smooth as a normal automatic around town. In fact, it feels just like a manual: there is a definite pause and slight jerk as it grabs the next gear, even in the sharper modes. I would say that the driveability is better with it in the higher modes. I drove a 6MT version and it was smoother. But the SMG does shift lightning-fast and from a standstill you are doing 90mph before you realize it.

The M5 has that "OMG" feeling after you really drive it hard.


2013 Audi S4 S-tronic
I felt I owed it to Audi to see what the newest version of my car was like. The 2013s happened to be on the lot, boasting a steering wheel borrowed from the Gallardo (flat-bottom...so sexy) and tweaked grilles and tail lamps.

I'm conflicted about the car overall. Whereas my S4 feels like a muscle car (small car, huge motor), the new one is a bit numb. It does everything too well. The motor is very smooth and quiet, and the power delivery is very very linear. The S-tronic gearbox is very fast but imperceptible around town. The interior is a bit complicated for my tastes but the quality has not gone down as some have suggested.

The price is right, especially for a brand new car. I just wish Audi had done something a bit more "bonkers".

But when all is said and done, I got out of the car and had no real feelings either way. I've heard that the ECU upgrades and an intake or exhaust gives it more kick and a better sound.


2010 Lexus IS-F
I did this on a whim at the end of the day since a nearby dealer had one. This one really threw a wrench into my decision! For some reason it got some very bad press for having too many gears, riding too hard, and being an oddball. On the contrary, I would say that it's a good package.

The Yamaha V8 might be better than BMW's V10, no joke. The noise it makes above 3400rpm when the secondary intake runners open is glorious -- very "Honda VTEC"-like. This car feels like the muscle car that my current S4 is. The 8-speed gearbox is indeed lightning fast but docile at low speeds. Ride is firm but I found it acceptable.

It's a Lexus at heart. That gives a downside in that the interior is a bit dated and spartan, though to be fair it is no-fuss. Everything is labeled and it doesn't take 10 button presses to accomplish.

I walked away saying, "Wow."



So yes, now I have some thinking to do.

The M5 has been a dream car of mine for a while, and it lives up to the hype. But the iDrive is as bad as the press makes it out to be, even for a techy guy like me. It does seem very nice for around town use and has lots of space.

The IS-F is the muscle car. Wild looks, crazy engine, and an awesome noise. I just have to get past the small backseat (smaller than my Audi) and the blah interior. It actually reminds me a lot of my S4.
 
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I wasn't aware that Toyota was putting Yamaha V8s (does Yamaha even make a V8?) into their Lexus IS-F.


It's a Toyota motor but the heads and some other key parts are Yamaha. Not exactly a "crate motor".




From Wikipedia:

The Lexus IS F features a 5.0 L direct-injected 2UR-GSE V8 producing 416 SAE hp (423 PS, 311 kW) at 6600 rpm, while peak torque is 371 ft·lbf (503 N·m) at 5200 rpm.[31] The engine redlines at 6800 rpm and also features a two-stage intake system, engine oil and automatic transmission fluid coolers and an oil pump designed for high-speed cornering. Along with both port and direct injection, the engine features VVT-iE camshaft timing, and has a compression ratio of 11.8:1.[32] The 2UR-GSE is derived from the Lexus UR-series V8 engines, which first debuted as the 1UR-FSE on the 2007 Lexus LS 460. Of the UR-series V8s, the 2UR-GSE is most closely related to the 2UR-FSE used in the 2008 LS 600h. It features the same bore and stroke dimensions (3.70 in x 3.52).[32] However, extensive modifications carried out by the IS F engineering team in conjunction with Yamaha's Formula One (F1) engine program resulted in a cast-aluminum intake manifold, new cylinder heads, and titanium intake valves.[32] Additionally the engine features a forged crankshaft, connecting rods and cam lobes. At maximum acceleration above 3400 rpm, the secondary intake opens.[33] Compared with the LS 600h's 2UR-FSE (measured alone without its hybrid-electric motors), the IS F 2UR-GSE has more horsepower and torque at higher rpm, and 17 ft·lbf less peak torque (see also Lexus IS F performance specifications).[32]
 
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I wasn't aware that Toyota was putting Yamaha V8s (does Yamaha even make a V8?) into their Lexus IS-F.


Yamaha made the V8 for the Ford Taurus SHO.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I wasn't aware that Toyota was putting Yamaha V8s (does Yamaha even make a V8?) into their Lexus IS-F.


Yamaha made the V8 for the Ford Taurus SHO.


Sort of.

The original SHO 3.0/3.2L V6 was entirely made by Yamaha. The 3.4L V8 version had a Ford-made block but final assembly was done by Yamaha.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I would buy the BMW.




Just curious why you say that? Have you driven all of them?
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I would buy the BMW.



So would I, but then I'm quite heavily biased at this point.
 
I havent driven all of them, but I have driven the M5 (went into limp mode on the track at the BMW performance center), and have been a fan of the IS for a long time.

I like the IS, but it is a small car. It hugs you, which is nice, but Ive never felt like it is a well-fitting car. A beautiful one though... Even the base model seems to feel super-quality and Ive always liked it.

Im not sold on the front look of the Audis anymore, but they still make a nice car. The whole fuel dilution thing turns me off a bit (coming from someone who drives a DI BMW).

The M5 is just the M5, it is an awesome car no matter how you play it. But to me it is just a bit too much car for daily driving, IMO, almost too fast and effortless. You might want something fast, but if you dont have to work it a little (that doesnt mean redlines and screaming engines), it is a bit less fun.

Seems that it all comes down to what you need in size...

Big car = M5
Mid-size car=S4
Small car=IS-F

Personally Id probably go after a 4dr M3 with MT and be happy.

Why no AMG cars on there?
 
I'd avoid Audi like the plague.

If you wear white rimmed sunglasses or want to be friends with people with white rimmed sunglasses, get the M5.

If you want the obvious choice of the three, get the ISF.
 
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
I'd avoid Audi like the plague.

If you wear white rimmed sunglasses or want to be friends with people with white rimmed sunglasses, get the M5.

If you want the obvious choice of the three, get the ISF.


I don't get the reference? None of the M5 owners I know (yes, we hang out, novel concept) are the quintessential DB's you seem to be implying we are with your "white sunglasses" comment.

That's like me saying all Civic Si owners are lunatic retards who cut people off and think they are reliving the Fast and the Furious every time they get on the highway because I saw one behaving that way.
 
The man makes the car, the car doesn't make the man. I know that every brand has its stigmas but I could care less. Clarkson said that all the losers had moved away from BMW to Audis but that's just one guy's opinion.

No AMG cars because they just don't do it for me. Not crazy about the styling, among other things. C63 has a nice sound, for sure.

I drove an M3 DCT but the interior was too cramped and a bit spartan for me. It's also hard to find DCT ones...and they are pricey. Nice car but not really what I wanted. I created a new thread on the M5 Board to ask if there's some sort of trick to getting the SMG smoother around town.

I agree the IS-F is the smaller car but I do like that cockpit feel.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
I'd avoid Audi like the plague.

If you wear white rimmed sunglasses or want to be friends with people with white rimmed sunglasses, get the M5.

If you want the obvious choice of the three, get the ISF.


I don't get the reference? None of the M5 owners I know (yes, we hang out, novel concept) are the quintessential DB's you seem to be implying we are with your "white sunglasses" comment.

Who said white rimmed sunglasses make you a DB? Why do you care what people perceive you as?

Suspiciously defensive...
 
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
I'd avoid Audi like the plague.

If you wear white rimmed sunglasses or want to be friends with people with white rimmed sunglasses, get the M5.

If you want the obvious choice of the three, get the ISF.


I don't get the reference? None of the M5 owners I know (yes, we hang out, novel concept) are the quintessential DB's you seem to be implying we are with your "white sunglasses" comment.

Who said white rimmed sunglasses make you a DB? Why do you care what people perceive you as?

Suspiciously defensive...


That's the stereotype. White-rimmed sunglasses = DB. Not suspiciously defensive at all, I don't wear sunglasses, LOL! But seriously, that's the stereotype, so if you weren't references the white rimmed sunglass DB stereotype, I'm curious as to what you think you were implying?
 
Whatever, I could care less what the stereotype is. I buy a car because I like it, not because I want to fit in or impress people.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Whatever, I could care less what the stereotype is. I buy a car because I like it, not because I want to fit in or impress people.


I'm not talking about the car, I'm talking about the white sunglasses reference if that helps.

I don't think the the stereotype cares what wheels are strapped beneath it
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
I'd avoid Audi like the plague.

If you wear white rimmed sunglasses or want to be friends with people with white rimmed sunglasses, get the M5.

If you want the obvious choice of the three, get the ISF.


I don't get the reference? None of the M5 owners I know (yes, we hang out, novel concept) are the quintessential DB's you seem to be implying we are with your "white sunglasses" comment.

Who said white rimmed sunglasses make you a DB? Why do you care what people perceive you as?

Suspiciously defensive...


That's the stereotype. White-rimmed sunglasses = DB. Not suspiciously defensive at all, I don't wear sunglasses, LOL! But seriously, that's the stereotype, so if you weren't references the white rimmed sunglass DB stereotype, I'm curious as to what you think you were implying?

Young people/Trust fund babies.
 
Like I said, I looked at the E90 M3 and ruled it out. The S5 is nice but is too similar to what I already have. RS4 is manual trans only and again too similar to my current car. Not really a fan of the CTS-V's interior. The Benzes don't do it for me either.

Had considered an STI or Evo years ago but those are too boy-racer and spartan.
 
I'd get the M5 because, well, I've driven a few and I have always wanted one
laugh.gif


I like the early 90s ones the best though, while they're not really all that fast in a straight line by today's standards, they are a hoot to drive hard in the hilly backroads west of here! Just a beautiful cacophony of high strung inline 6 goodness.

The new BMWs in general are so quiet. The old ones make such a wonderful sound!
 
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