Need help on Stuck Pistons

[CelicaGT]

Hello. I am glad that I found this great site. I have a situation with my engine and need some serious advice from everyone. Here are the details.

My Celica GT 5 spd has been burning oil ever since I got it at about 40K miles. It burns at the rate of 1 qt every 500 miles. Taking it to the Toyota dealer, they diagnosed the motor as having an oil-gelling condition. Supposedly I have a couple of pistons that are stuck and I need an engine rebuild that will cost me over 3 grand. Apparently the engine is free of sludge now because someone opened it up and flushed it out, but my pistons are still stuck. As a result I am burning oil and have black carbon residue on my exhaust tip.

Toyota denied me warranty with an excuse of saying that someone tampered with the motor. (by flushing it out) (probably done by the previous owner or dealer I bought it from)

Right now I am almost out of options. A lawsuit would drag on forever. And I can't afford to dump 3 thousand on a rebuild.

I've heard great things about Auto-RX and Seafoam. I know Auto-RX removes sludge, but how could it free up my piston rings? With Seafoam I am concerned that it will damage things more by creating alot of floating particles. Does anyone know if any of these products (or others) will help?

Thank You

 

[Jelly]

A quart every five hundred miles...WOW!

You mean your piston rings are stuck, correct? If your pistons were stuck in the cylinder, it'd have an awful hard time running...

Although I won't delve into the warranty issue at this time, what do you mean by someone "opened it up and flushed it out"?

If it is clean though, how are the rings stuck UNLESS they are installed improperly?

What oil are you currently using?

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by CelicaGT:
Taking it to the Toyota dealer, they diagnosed the motor as having an oil-gelling condition. Apparently the engine is free of sludge now because someone opened it up and flushed it out, but my pistons are still stuck.

---

Ok, it's clean but has a oil-gelling "condition"? How's that?

 

[CelicaGT]

Sorry if I was unclear. According to the dealer, the car had a sludge problem in the past due to a lack of changing the oil. (abused by the previous owner)

I'm sorry as I have no idea as to what he means exactly as my knowledge about motor internals is limited (still learning by reading up). Please feel free to educate me. I am currently using 5w30 Mobile Drive Clean oil.

However this is what he said: A couple pistons aren't moving due to all the crap built up in the past. I don't know if its the rings or what. The impression I got was that the piston is there but not moving (maybe he meant the rings aren't contracting???) They also seem to think someone opened up the engine to clean in order to try to "cover up" the problem before selling it. It could have been a flush from an additive for all I know, but that is the excuse they are using for denying warranty work. Their evidence is due to spottiness in the engine, i.e. some spots are clean while some are dirtier. So in short, they can tell there was a sludge problem in the past. It is clean in there now, however I have a couple of pistons that are stuck. Does that sound right?
I know the Toyota Tech is saying whatever he can to get out of this and my attempts to complain to Toyota Corporate etc...have failed.

 

[Jelly]

Well see, the piston themselves have to move or else the engine just plain would not run.

I'm taking it that what he is saying is that the piston rings (or ring pack) are stuck and not functioning properly.

quote:

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Originally posted by CelicaGT:
some spots are clean while some are dirtier.

---

Ok, so it's possible that the ring pack is still incredibly dirty.

Given its maintenance history, run a fuel system cleaner through it. I recommend Gumout Regane.

A few of us on here have had bad experiences with Mobil DC in regards to consumption, including me. Change to something else whether you use ARX or not.

This vehicle is a prime candidate for Auto-RX. Follow these directions:

http://auto-rx.com/pages/applications2.htm

How many miles are on this car? What year is it?

I'd recommend changing to Pennzoil 5w30 if you use ARX.

[ November 18, 2004, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[Drew99GT]

I'd take it to a compitent mechanic, other than the dealer, and see what he thinks. Have him thuroughly diagnose the engine. If, for instance, the engine was so gelled up that oil starvation was occuring at some point, the motor may just be shot from lack of lubrication. If that's the case, then it'd be dumb to throw auto-rx at it if it's true mechanical damage. If it looks good, auto-rx will be your ticket.

 

[CelicaGT]

Thanks for the replies Jelly and Drew. The car is a 2000 and has only about 44K miles on it now.

According to the Toyota Tech, there is no mechanical damage to the engine, just that the piston rings (i assume now) are stuck.

I have already purchased Auto-RX but have yet to try it. Jelly, could you please elaborate as to why Mobil DC has caused you problems? I just changed my oil 2 days ago with fresh Mobil DC. How does Pennzoil 5w30 differ? I appreciate the responses greatly.

Thanks.

 

[Jelly]

Some others on the board have noted higher oil consumption with MDC (from small to massive amounts) versus other oils.

My brother tried MDC in our 3.1L Lumina last year, and although that car uses oil, I've never seen it use one so incredibly quick before...

 

[Neil Womack]

CelicaGT

Welcome to site.

What you want is a compression test. If you can change a spark plug you can do your own compression test.

Doing a pre and post AutoRx compression test would be great BITOG fodder. I suspect lots of us would love to see this. Though I'm to lazy to do so myself.

However, with my AutoRx experience and the reading of what must be hundreds if not thousands of AutoRx posts. I would suggest that you just change the oil filter and pour the AutoRx in.

Don't worry about the brand of oil till the wash and rinse cycles are complete. What ever dino is cheapest and meets the API standard you need.

Can't wait to see your results!

Why is it I never see any errors till after I post?

[ November 18, 2004, 04:55 AM: Message edited by: Neil Womack ]

 

[Rick20]

I agree that ARX is probably the ticket. Ring packs can get so coked up with carbonized oil deposits that they are almost wlike welded together. Provided that your cylinder walls are still in good shape(not out of round) ARX should clean up the rings and lans so that the rings can again begin to work as expander rings. ARX works pretty fast on ring packs. Should see results inside of 1000 miles, but be sure to run the cleaning phase for 1500.

 

[Matt_S]

I wouldn't use the RX just yet. At the rate you're burning oil, it won't be in there long enough to be effective.

It sounds like the oil control rings are stuck. These are the rings responsible for wiping the oil off the cylinder walls to keep it out of the combustion chamber. Excessive carbon buildup can cause them to stick and not clean the oil off the cylinder walls as they should. The first thing you should try is a piston soak. Lube Control is the best product for this. People also commonly use Marvel Mystery Oil or Seafoam. Whatever you use, you'll pull all four plugs pour in a couple ounces of product and let it soak overnight. Before restarting, cover the plug holes with a rag and crank the engine a bit to get the remaining stuff out of the cylinder, then re-insert the plugs and fire it up. That should unstick the rings. If it doesn't repeat the soak.

Once you have that handled, use the RX. As the oil contacts the oil control rings, the RX will do a fantastic job of cleaning them completely. After the treatment, the problem shouldn't reoccur as long as you change the oil regularly.

 

[Ken2]

I agree with what Matt said, but I'd put a wrench on the nut on the end of the crankshaft and turn the engine by hand to be sure there isn't enough liquid cleaner remaining in the combustion space to cause damage. I'd even roll the crankshaft back & forth by hand to work the cleaner into the ring grooves better. Then, roll it completely around a couple of revolutions to be sure the liquid comes out the spark plug holes and doesn't lock the piston and cause damage. When you get it running expect massive smoke. After the smoke clears, immediately change the oil...it'll be full of the cleaner. Now, do your Auto-Rx two-cleaning routine.


Ken

 

[JohnBrowning]

Two things to try.

1) Remove the spark plugs and pour about 10Ml of B-12 chemtool into the cylinders. Roll the cylinders over by hand a few time and let set over night. Put the plugs back in place and start the vechile up. White blooms should come out of the exhaust.

2)Buy a bottle of Auto-Rx. Follow the directions! I think they are up to a 1500 mile clean phase and 1500 mile rinse phase now.

B-12 Chemtool in the pint can can be found at Walmart, TSC, Autozone and many other places. It is about $1.50-$2.50 per-pint.

Make sure you do not have a problem with a bad pup cat. THe ceramic cats can go bad and the ceramic media gets ingested into the engine through the natural egr function of the cam phaseing. The ceramic particles scour the bores and cause excessive oil consumption.

 

[kevm14]

Didn't the 89-95 Taurus SHOs (the yamaha V6) have that specific problem?

 

[brianl703]

Supposedly it was a problem on the early V6 Ford Contours (95-96) and Ford recalled the cats on many of those V6 models but I have NEVER heard of it actually happening to anyone.

 

[ALJAMES]

Before you use the Auto-RX you could just run the Mobil DC until it is a quart low and then change out the oil only for a high mileage oil. I am partial to Valvoline Max Life and have personally had very good results with it. A second option would be to just add 1/2 or 1 quart of a high mileage oil as needed to see if it does any good. If not then in 2000 or 3000 miles do your Auto-RX treatment. This would be very good information to share with the board and would only cost you $6 to $8 more.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Their is nothing in Mobil DC that cleans out the engine!! Drive Clean is just the name of the product like GTX on Castrol oil. The additives in Mobil Drive CLean are typical of any oil for passenger cars.

 

[CelicaGT]

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. This weekend I tried to open up my valve cover to get some good before and after shots. I didn't continue as it started to rain and I had some trouble with a screw that was out of reach. As a result I just put in the Auto-RX with a new filter.

Does anyone recommend doing a piston soak at this time as well or should the Auto-RX be sufficient?
Also if I do a piston soak, can anyone explain in detail how to manually turn over the car??

I wish I would have checked this forum again before pouring in the Auto-RX, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Matt_S]

Now that the RX is in there, just leave it alone. Don't soak it now, as you have to drain the oil right after a soak. If you're still consuming a lot of oil 1500 miles from now, you might consider a soak right before you drain the oil.

 

[CelicaGT]

Hello.

Update on the Auto-RX.
I've just reched about 550 miles since putting in the Auto-RX. At about 200 miles I had to add 1/4 oil (I'm using Mobil Drive Clean 5w30). At about 520 miles I had to add 3/4. So it seems like I am still burning 1 qt of oil every 500 miles. Can anyone offer any advice on what I should do? It is the winter now so i see steam(or what I think is steam) coming out from the tailpipe non-stop even after the car is warm. I don't think this is normal and I still have carbon residue at my exhaust tip. Should I add some more Auto-RX to compensate for the burned away oil?

tks