My friend got his license at 15 was a Naval, Aviator and retired an airline captain.
Nearly 50% of men who have never flown or landed an airplane think they could safely land a passenger airplane
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Ok, how many hours of firearms training does an A.M. get during their training? What is the required score to pass? Adjust appropriately. And there aren't nearly that many of them already up in the air if there isn't randomly 1 in 4 aircraft with someone on board who could defend and save the plane. And I don't want anyone innocent hurt but I XXX times that much don't want an entire plane and XXX people killed when it could have been prevented.
Their vision isn't good enough in many cases. That's what stopped me 40 years ago.
The Air Marshals train for over a year, every day. So, let’s call the training 2,000 hours. It’s not just how to shoot, it’s when. No civilian is going to come close to those guys. Particularly on the when.
Let’s examine this for a different angle.
Since 9-11, how many times have Air Marshals, or armed LEOs, been needed?
Given the number of times they have had to engage a target (zero), why take the risk of expanding the number of armed individuals?
A lot of risk in your proposal, as previously discussed, but there isn’t a need for it.
There is footage of a guy who landed a 747 back in 1978 that never had a lesson. People just had to get out of the cockpit so he could concentrate.
I wouldn't try it near a population center.
Hopefully I could get a silly long runway, like Andrews AFB.
I'd come in way too hot then not have the appropriate reflexes/ muscle memory for what happens next, after the first bounce.
My imagined ideal scenario would be a water landing, to scrub off speed, at some long beach somewhere so the survivors would have somewhere to go. But the plane would probably shred. Sully was an anomaly.
My best outcome would be they'd find the bodies so the families could get the insurance money faster.
Hopefully I could get a silly long runway, like Andrews AFB.
I'd come in way too hot then not have the appropriate reflexes/ muscle memory for what happens next, after the first bounce.
My imagined ideal scenario would be a water landing, to scrub off speed, at some long beach somewhere so the survivors would have somewhere to go. But the plane would probably shred. Sully was an anomaly.
My best outcome would be they'd find the bodies so the families could get the insurance money faster.
I grew up on a farm and learned to operate a lot of equipment but a plane was not one of them, I’ll pass on that one.
Yes, I'm sure those two things are a portion of what the training encompasses. Along with a LOT of other things beyond that. Some of which isn't required when the plane is already hijacked. How many of the people in the 4 planes might have voted yes to my suggestion? And there's probably a difference between how many times we know of that an A.M. has been needed and how many times they acted and we never knew.
I'll have the fish.
Never have the fish on a plane!
I disagree. I00 hours of advanced training does not include practice. I can say that anyone that gets NRA Personal defense Inside the home, Outside the home, CCW, and Defensive Pistol Courses with a competent NRA Instructor knows what they are doing and that is 40+ hours. I have had all of them at least twice plus Law enforcement training. To complete those courses requires quite a bit of extra practice.
Here is the Firearm part of the test. Total of 30 shots. All at 7 yards.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Federal Air Marshal Qualification: Test Your CCW Skills
Created for the Federal Air Marshal Service, the Tactical Pistol Course is an excellent source of training for the armed citizen.
Not easy but certainly not that difficult with a bit of practice. Someone competent in the four NRA courses above (40 hours) can certainly pass this test.
Glad I saw this. I will take this test April 1st with my instructor.
Oh yea, the course is 14 weeks not 1 year+ as Astro mentioned. This includes Firearm training. I don't know where Astro gets his information
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You’re missing the most important part of being an Air Marshall - it’s not about marksmanship, it’s about when to shoot.I disagree. I00 hours of advanced training does not include practice. I can say that anyone that gets NRA Personal defense Inside the home, Outside the home, CCW, and Defensive Pistol Courses with a competent NRA Instructor knows what they are doing and that is 40+ hours. I have had all of them at least twice plus Law enforcement training. To complete those courses requires quite a bit of extra practice.
Here is the Firearm part of the test. Total of 30 shots. All at 7 yards.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Federal Air Marshal Qualification: Test Your CCW Skills
Created for the Federal Air Marshal Service, the Tactical Pistol Course is an excellent source of training for the armed citizen.www.shootingillustrated.com
Not easy but certainly not that difficult with a bit of practice. Someone competent in the four NRA courses above (40 hours) can certainly pass this test.
Glad I saw this. I will take this test April 1st with my instructor.
You might be able to pass the linked marksmanship test, so what?
Honestly, what you posted is much easier than what they actually do, and the judgment part is taught in simulators to which you don’t have access.
What they actually shoot, and what you can’t practice, involves moving targets. So, their marksmanship greatly exceeds that course, and their training greatly exceeds that to which you have access.
Finally, Air Marshalls are not the only security measure that has been implemented since 9-11. The defense in depth of screening, procedures, reinforced doors, and armed pilots have been a success.
There is no justification for armed citizens on airplanes. They don’t add to security, they detract.
By federal law, all armed individuals have to make themselves known to the Captain. I see lots of sworn LEOs. I am happy to have the FBI, Secret Service, Postal Inspectors, NCIS, and others on board.
No way I want civilian concealed carry on board, after all, this is the same population that thinks they can land the plane, and that lack of judgment and experience makes them a danger to everyone on board.
Making this CCW fantasy into a reality would allow future terrorists to go through the same course, and board the plane armed.
Which is a horrible idea.
Aircraft security right now is better than you imagine, and doesn’t need the risk of allowing CCW.
Where do I get my information?
From the FAMs I talk with. From one of my sailors who was a FAM. From official sources.
I'm sure in each of the 4 planes it was absolutely 100% obvious when to shoot. And there are any number of excellent centers who can provide training equal to if not surpassing what the A.M. receive. And frankly I see zero difference in an FBI checked and authorized individual who scores higher than xx% and a regular Joe who went through the A.M. academy, mainly because there is none. And I'd count on the FBI to week out the terrorists. We could also secure our borders and eliminate most of them.
I have a personal relationship with a police officer who works for a modern city. This person was on the SRT (SWAT) team for years. The special training they practiced on a regular basis far exceeded what a regular LEO received. Just one of the things they practiced were hostage taking scenarios in unoccupied office buildings where they wore special PPE and fired low powered rounds at each other.
My point is, AMs and the like are the proper people for the job. Someone with a CCW is not, at least not on an airplane. I‘d far prefer a dozen manly male “civilians” willing to take action and incapacitate the problem individual with fists and feet.
Scott
My point is, AMs and the like are the proper people for the job. Someone with a CCW is not, at least not on an airplane. I‘d far prefer a dozen manly male “civilians” willing to take action and incapacitate the problem individual with fists and feet.
Scott
Seriously, if you're put in a position of landing the plane, wouldn't you give it a shot. It's not likely to get any worse.
It isn't Joe Random CCW on the plane, it is Joe Random Federal Air Marshal equivalency trained and tested on the plane. They aren't going to act on seatbelts or phones, only on situations that have escalated beyond the scope and control of all the air crew aboard, basically when another weapon is involved.
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