Now I think of it, it's a FACT!!! I rub the finest synthetic PU oil on my legs, and it helps to stop latic acid from forming and allows me to run to and from work (60 miles total) each day. My car is parked, so I don't have to drive = saving mpg!
Myth or Fact: Synthetic Increases MPG
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driving an '05 Odyssey, I switched from Valvoline 0w20 to Mobil1 0w20 and my mileage on this particular long trip that I have made many times immediately went from 23.5 to 24.5mpg and has stayed that way. Haven't tried dino.
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Now I think of it, it's a FACT!!! I rub the finest synthetic PU oil on my legs, and it helps to stop latic acid from forming and allows me to run to and from work (60 miles total) each day.
Actually, this is a myth! It's not the formation of lactic acid which causes fatigue. Lactic acid is actually used as fuel via anaerobic glycolysis. While it's still up for debate, most sports physiologists are going with inorganic phosphate ions as the true cause of muscle fatigue.
Just figured I should set the record straight...
Now I think of it, it's a FACT!!! I rub the finest synthetic PU oil on my legs, and it helps to stop latic acid from forming and allows me to run to and from work (60 miles total) each day.
Actually, this is a myth! It's not the formation of lactic acid which causes fatigue. Lactic acid is actually used as fuel via anaerobic glycolysis. While it's still up for debate, most sports physiologists are going with inorganic phosphate ions as the true cause of muscle fatigue.
Just figured I should set the record straight...
Originally Posted By: TMoto
Sounds like a project for Mythbusters.
Are they ever going to get back on TV after accidentally they shot that cannonball into someone's house?
Sounds like a project for Mythbusters.
Are they ever going to get back on TV after accidentally they shot that cannonball into someone's house?
People can do the "tests" all they want to. I didnt notice a gain in MPG when I was using syn oil. Since I do 4-5K oil changes on my vehicles syn was a waste of money.
Either or doesn't make a difference. I have tried to track it on the same car on several cars and never saw any real difference. All the technical talk is not needed, someone needs to show true world proof if they have seen this. [censored], improper tire pressure can make more of a difference on gas mileage.
Originally Posted By: mtxjohn
Fact. http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mtxjohn/rsx
People who actually track their fuel usage will tell you to they experience a significant increase with synthetic. I am beating the EPA by about 50% with my car. Synthetic saves me money. Saves me time. I have 177,000 on my rsx and wifey has 270,000 on her crv. Saves me the cost of buying a new car. Its a [censored] no-brainer. But there are a lot of morons out there trying to save a few pennies at oil change and spending a LOT MORE on gas.
Oh... c'mon now. It's not a 'no brainer' at all.
Full synth oils can have good value, but I think more for special needs. I stopped using synths in my engines.
BTW, we are not morons .
Fact. http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mtxjohn/rsx
People who actually track their fuel usage will tell you to they experience a significant increase with synthetic. I am beating the EPA by about 50% with my car. Synthetic saves me money. Saves me time. I have 177,000 on my rsx and wifey has 270,000 on her crv. Saves me the cost of buying a new car. Its a [censored] no-brainer. But there are a lot of morons out there trying to save a few pennies at oil change and spending a LOT MORE on gas.
Oh... c'mon now. It's not a 'no brainer' at all.
Full synth oils can have good value, but I think more for special needs. I stopped using synths in my engines.
BTW, we are not morons .
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
People can do the "tests" all they want to. I didnt notice a gain in MPG when I was using syn oil. Since I do 4-5K oil changes on my vehicles syn was a waste of money.
I notice a difference only in the winter. During cold (Especially below 20 degrees)starts the engine turns over more freely and the first few minutes of operation are quieter. It seems I need a much lighter accelerator foot to get it moving during warm up than with Dino / Blends. During the summer I see / feel no real difference between Dino / Blend / Synthetic operationally.
My engine was too loud for my taste at cold (Winter cold) start up with Dino and the older Blends. Now, I'm a happy camper. PP, Kendall full synthetic and Motorcraft full synthetic all seem to perform equally well in the winter.
People can do the "tests" all they want to. I didnt notice a gain in MPG when I was using syn oil. Since I do 4-5K oil changes on my vehicles syn was a waste of money.
I notice a difference only in the winter. During cold (Especially below 20 degrees)starts the engine turns over more freely and the first few minutes of operation are quieter. It seems I need a much lighter accelerator foot to get it moving during warm up than with Dino / Blends. During the summer I see / feel no real difference between Dino / Blend / Synthetic operationally.
My engine was too loud for my taste at cold (Winter cold) start up with Dino and the older Blends. Now, I'm a happy camper. PP, Kendall full synthetic and Motorcraft full synthetic all seem to perform equally well in the winter.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Now I think of it, it's a FACT!!! I rub the finest synthetic PU oil on my legs, and it helps to stop latic acid from forming and allows me to run to and from work (60 miles total) each day.
Actually, this is a myth! It's not the formation of lactic acid which causes fatigue. Lactic acid is actually used as fuel via anaerobic glycolysis. While it's still up for debate, most sports physiologists are going with inorganic phosphate ions as the true cause of muscle fatigue.
Just figured I should set the record straight...
LMAO! I was being facetious in my statement and you took it serious. I'm a avid weight lifter and I know exactly what you are talking about. I never mentioned muscle fatigue in my previous statement. I was simply talking about the "burn" lol.
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Now I think of it, it's a FACT!!! I rub the finest synthetic PU oil on my legs, and it helps to stop latic acid from forming and allows me to run to and from work (60 miles total) each day.
Actually, this is a myth! It's not the formation of lactic acid which causes fatigue. Lactic acid is actually used as fuel via anaerobic glycolysis. While it's still up for debate, most sports physiologists are going with inorganic phosphate ions as the true cause of muscle fatigue.
Just figured I should set the record straight...
LMAO! I was being facetious in my statement and you took it serious. I'm a avid weight lifter and I know exactly what you are talking about. I never mentioned muscle fatigue in my previous statement. I was simply talking about the "burn" lol.
Back OT, the differences are now so small that it can be hard to tell a great dino from synthetic.
I would almost guarantee you a mileage increase, but it would be so small you could not find it.
I would almost guarantee you a mileage increase, but it would be so small you could not find it.
For BITOG's, I'm sure the difference will be minimal due to good upkeep.
But for the general public, synthetic probably would help due to the fact that most people drive severe service but don't change their oil accordingly. There is therefore likely to be a cumulative negative effect on the engine that synthetic was more likely to avoid.
In that scenario however, I would suspect that a good PEA fuel system cleaner would have more of an impact on fuel economy on such cars. At least that is my experience - having always used quality oils on a short tripper, it was the addition of PEA that dramatically improved fuel economy.
But for the general public, synthetic probably would help due to the fact that most people drive severe service but don't change their oil accordingly. There is therefore likely to be a cumulative negative effect on the engine that synthetic was more likely to avoid.
In that scenario however, I would suspect that a good PEA fuel system cleaner would have more of an impact on fuel economy on such cars. At least that is my experience - having always used quality oils on a short tripper, it was the addition of PEA that dramatically improved fuel economy.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I would almost guarantee you a mileage increase, but it would be so small you could not find it.
This, precisely. I have gone from synthetic Mobil 1 5w30 to conventional Rotella T 15w40 and not noticed any appreciable difference in fuel economy. This is not to say that it isn't there! My gut belief is that your mood when you accelerate up the first half of a bridge has just as much to do with FE as your choice of oil.
I would almost guarantee you a mileage increase, but it would be so small you could not find it.
This, precisely. I have gone from synthetic Mobil 1 5w30 to conventional Rotella T 15w40 and not noticed any appreciable difference in fuel economy. This is not to say that it isn't there! My gut belief is that your mood when you accelerate up the first half of a bridge has just as much to do with FE as your choice of oil.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: mtxjohn
Fact. http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mtxjohn/rsx
People who actually track their fuel usage will tell you to they experience a significant increase with synthetic. I am beating the EPA by about 50% with my car. Synthetic saves me money. Saves me time. I have 177,000 on my rsx and wifey has 270,000 on her crv. Saves me the cost of buying a new car. Its a [censored] no-brainer. But there are a lot of morons out there trying to save a few pennies at oil change and spending a LOT MORE on gas.
Oh... c'mon now. It's not a 'no brainer' at all.
Full synth oils can have good value, but I think more for special needs. I stopped using synths in my engines.
BTW, we are not morons .
Agree!
And thank you..
Originally Posted By: mtxjohn
Fact. http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mtxjohn/rsx
People who actually track their fuel usage will tell you to they experience a significant increase with synthetic. I am beating the EPA by about 50% with my car. Synthetic saves me money. Saves me time. I have 177,000 on my rsx and wifey has 270,000 on her crv. Saves me the cost of buying a new car. Its a [censored] no-brainer. But there are a lot of morons out there trying to save a few pennies at oil change and spending a LOT MORE on gas.
Oh... c'mon now. It's not a 'no brainer' at all.
Full synth oils can have good value, but I think more for special needs. I stopped using synths in my engines.
BTW, we are not morons .
Agree!
And thank you..
I keep using synthetic oil because I have a stash I paid less than $2/qt the last 4-5 years. But the OCI's with synthetic is double the dino, so that it is used to its full potential.
I don't detect any measurable MPG increase with syn oil of the same grade, but I do found that syn oil with 1-2 grades thinner did yield better MPG by about 3-5% at operating temperature and much higher percentage for first 3-5 miles after cold start. I think thinner oil gives better MPG increase than syn vs dino.
I don't detect any measurable MPG increase with syn oil of the same grade, but I do found that syn oil with 1-2 grades thinner did yield better MPG by about 3-5% at operating temperature and much higher percentage for first 3-5 miles after cold start. I think thinner oil gives better MPG increase than syn vs dino.
Show me the long term mileage graph of vehicle and then show me how you measure 2% mileage gain. Unless you can measure your mileage with accuracy and consistency of 0.1%, claiming 2% mileage gain is pure noise.
It does not stand scientific scrutiny.
show me a study where A->B->A->B tests are done. When both A results are 2% higher than both B results AND both A results are within 0.1% of each other AND both B results are within 0.1% of each other. That is the only way to scientifically prove the 2% mileage gains.
Prove me wrong and show me such a study.
- Vikas
It does not stand scientific scrutiny.
show me a study where A->B->A->B tests are done. When both A results are 2% higher than both B results AND both A results are within 0.1% of each other AND both B results are within 0.1% of each other. That is the only way to scientifically prove the 2% mileage gains.
Prove me wrong and show me such a study.
- Vikas
As far as fuel mileage is concerned and synthetic being better than dino in this regard, if you compare apples to apples (synthetic 5w30 SN vs a quality dino 5w30 SN), I would have to say... MYTH!
From what I have seen, with the newer SN/GF5 oils, IMHO many quality dino oils are now almost as good as synthetics. The only real advantage that synthetics have anymore is with the higher VI 0W-XX grades and extended OCI capability.
From what I have seen, with the newer SN/GF5 oils, IMHO many quality dino oils are now almost as good as synthetics. The only real advantage that synthetics have anymore is with the higher VI 0W-XX grades and extended OCI capability.
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Originally Posted By: rjacket
For BITOG's, I'm sure the difference will be minimal due to good upkeep.
But for the general public, synthetic probably would help due to the fact that most people drive severe service but don't change their oil accordingly. There is therefore likely to be a cumulative negative effect on the engine that synthetic was more likely to avoid.
In that scenario however, I would suspect that a good PEA fuel system cleaner would have more of an impact on fuel economy on such cars. At least that is my experience - having always used quality oils on a short tripper, it was the addition of PEA that dramatically improved fuel economy.
Good tip. If these PEA fuel system cleaners *actually work* I'll be sure to pick one up. I had given up on fuel cleaners.
As for synthetic increasing MPG, it sounds like it's too close to call. Some oils may give a negligible improvement, but it would be too small to notice.
For BITOG's, I'm sure the difference will be minimal due to good upkeep.
But for the general public, synthetic probably would help due to the fact that most people drive severe service but don't change their oil accordingly. There is therefore likely to be a cumulative negative effect on the engine that synthetic was more likely to avoid.
In that scenario however, I would suspect that a good PEA fuel system cleaner would have more of an impact on fuel economy on such cars. At least that is my experience - having always used quality oils on a short tripper, it was the addition of PEA that dramatically improved fuel economy.
Good tip. If these PEA fuel system cleaners *actually work* I'll be sure to pick one up. I had given up on fuel cleaners.
As for synthetic increasing MPG, it sounds like it's too close to call. Some oils may give a negligible improvement, but it would be too small to notice.
Using fuel
Using fuelly.com my MPG decreased during the summer by ~2 mpg running SLX vs. M1 ESP. This was somewhat to be expected since the M1 meets ACEA C2 except with regards to HTHS (there's a fuel economy component to C2) .
SLX cost me about 6 extra gallons of diesel.
Using fuelly.com my MPG decreased during the summer by ~2 mpg running SLX vs. M1 ESP. This was somewhat to be expected since the M1 meets ACEA C2 except with regards to HTHS (there's a fuel economy component to C2) .
SLX cost me about 6 extra gallons of diesel.
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I've also seen a slight increase in mileage going to synthetic. Of course, I was using Mobil AFE, which does claim about a 2% gain, which is exactly what I saw. Remember when Royal Purple made mileage claims and were "forced" to remove them from their advertising because they couldnt meet the claims. Well, apparently, Mobil AFE does meet the claims. I thought I saw Caterham post that Toyota claims to save around $8 per 5000 miles with their 0W-20 syn vs 5W-20 mineral. Perhaps he will chime in. I can see where a 5w30 syn vs 5w30 dino would be statistically a tie but we are now in the dawn of 0W era.
Originally Posted By: Capa
I've also seen a slight increase in mileage going to synthetic. Of course, I was using Mobil AFE, which does claim about a 2% gain, which is exactly what I saw. Remember when Royal Purple made mileage claims and were "forced" to remove them from their advertising because they couldnt meet the claims. Well, apparently, Mobil AFE does meet the claims. I thought I saw Caterham post that Toyota claims to save around $8 per 5000 miles with their 0W-20 syn vs 5W-20 mineral. Perhaps he will chime in. I can see where a 5w30 syn vs 5w30 dino would be statistically a tie but we are now in the dawn of 0W era.
I will say this. I'm another one who's not fully sold that 0w-XX will guarantee a yield of 2-3% in your mileage. I feel the results do vary from case to case.
If my car is averaging 20 MPG and if I do get a 2% increase, that will only push the average to 20.4 MPG. However, that increase has the potential to save me a tankful of gas each year (about a $70 savings).
Now here's where I'm sold on 0wXX synthetic with my car..... I do like how a 0w weight oil usually flows the fastest on a cold startup (I do think the Castrol Edge Titanium version of 0w20 is an exception with the low VI numbers, and I probably won't buy it despite the AAP sale right now). Plus with synthetic, I generally double my OCI. Those last two reasons alone are helping me save money at the end.
I've also seen a slight increase in mileage going to synthetic. Of course, I was using Mobil AFE, which does claim about a 2% gain, which is exactly what I saw. Remember when Royal Purple made mileage claims and were "forced" to remove them from their advertising because they couldnt meet the claims. Well, apparently, Mobil AFE does meet the claims. I thought I saw Caterham post that Toyota claims to save around $8 per 5000 miles with their 0W-20 syn vs 5W-20 mineral. Perhaps he will chime in. I can see where a 5w30 syn vs 5w30 dino would be statistically a tie but we are now in the dawn of 0W era.
I will say this. I'm another one who's not fully sold that 0w-XX will guarantee a yield of 2-3% in your mileage. I feel the results do vary from case to case.
If my car is averaging 20 MPG and if I do get a 2% increase, that will only push the average to 20.4 MPG. However, that increase has the potential to save me a tankful of gas each year (about a $70 savings).
Now here's where I'm sold on 0wXX synthetic with my car..... I do like how a 0w weight oil usually flows the fastest on a cold startup (I do think the Castrol Edge Titanium version of 0w20 is an exception with the low VI numbers, and I probably won't buy it despite the AAP sale right now). Plus with synthetic, I generally double my OCI. Those last two reasons alone are helping me save money at the end.
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