MTF Recommendation for 2012 Mazda Skyactiv 6MT

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timoboy

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2012 Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv 6MT, looking for MTF recommendations. 75W80 GL4. Early transmission with 1.8 qt capacity.

Vehicle has 165k freeway miles, fluid had never been changed, vehicle shifts very well for its age (smoothest manual I've ever driven), however wanted to change as just purchased and wanted new fluid in there.

Let me emphasize again, car shifted incredibly well with the old fluid, this was not a car with problematic synchros that I'm trying to cure with new fluid.

All the hoopla on the Mazda forums said use Redline MTL. Lots of talk on here to use that as well. Drained fluid, looked very good for its age minimal particles and not very dark. Verified 1.8 quarts came out. Did a fill of MTL.

What a downgrade! Challenging to shift from R to 1st now, cold shifting performance is terrible (I'm in Southern California so cold being 55 deg). Seems to be additional vibrations when decelerating now in gear. This stuff just feels like garbage compared to the original fluid. First time ever I'd consider putting the old fluid back in.

Any recommendations for a good GL4 75W80? OEM is $60 for two bottles at the dealer, but will purchase if no other good options. If redline offered a guarantee I'd be sending it back.
 
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Ravenol makes a 75w80 GL-4 MTF.....it's available on Amazon....Never used it so I can't say how it works.
 
Oh no, that's disappointing! I hope returning to OEM will return the transmission to its former smooth function.

Is the shifting notchy, or crunching into gear?
 
Personally I'd drive it for a while with that fluid and see if it improves.. I've got the Redline MT-90 in my 2007 Mazda with the 5-speed and its great. I think MT-90 is a bit thicker than the MTL and what was spec'd for my trans. If you don't like the Redline than you might as well spring for the factory fluid IMO.
 
Surprising. Many folks DO like the Redline MTL... and it is the correct grade (+ it is the correct GL-4). However, it is a bit LOWER in viscosity than some other 75W-80 transaxle / transmission lubricants (as, of course, 75W-80 is a RANGE of viscosities... a tolerance). Usually slightly lower viscosity actually improves the shift feel (with, in my opinion, a slight degradation of the protection it offers to the rolling element bearings and the gear teeth). The other factor, here, is that Redline claims to have specially engineered the synchro-compatible "drag or coefficient of friction" fluid parameters... dynamic versus static (sorry, I am not being 'real clear, here).

I have a 17 Mazda6 6MT with the C66M-R SkyActiv transaxle.... It may be the same as yours, actually. I have very very low miles on mine... and it remains with the OEM factory fill. It feels a bit notchy unless I shift it in its own (peculiar) manner. I am NOT talking, cold, here... as every last manual transmission I've driven feels different (and usually a bit "notchy") when cold versus at full operating temp. My SkyActiv 6MT likes me to slightly delay my shift from first to second... I am not talking, here, as if I do not pause in neutral a decent amount of time when shifting a normal 5MT or 6MT. I DO! But on the first to second shift, the SkyActiv wants me to pause even a bit longer... and then when doing this - no notchiness when at full op temp. I personally think that Mazda botched the design on the triple cone synchronizers... on first and second gears - 'cuz all of the rest of the gears (with I believe, single cone synchronizers) are smooth as butter when shifted in my normal-duration pause-thru-neutral manner. First and second... not so! Finicky
frown.gif
....

...Others have said that you 'kinda need to give a transmission 500 miles on a new fluid to actually fully have it behave how it is intending to for the majority of the fluid's useful operating life.

I believe strongly that a manual transmission has to be nursed to operating temp (and I do so, and treat it really well, when it is warming up)... I believe that the feel of the transmission at full operating temp is the one you need to pay attention to. I attach a comment VW made, some years ago, re the choice of a lubricant. Other snips, too.

YMMV...
 
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The go-to back when I was doing the Miata thing was the special sauce Motorcraft stuff that Ford came up with to fix one of their balky shifting transmissions. The people that tried it, loved it. Was fairly expensive, some full synthetic secret sauce MTF.

XT-M5-QS

Believe that was the part number if my quick search was correct.

I never personally tried it, but was going to before I sold the car.
 
The Motorcraft fluid is the best in my experience. It is a German PAO true synthetic. I put it in a GTI I once owned and it worked great. Great shift feel. I obtained it at a Ford dealer. I asked for a discount and they gave me one.
 
if I was the OP...

I would add Hy-per Lube Oil Supplement to the existing Red Line fill to improve the viscosity before pondering a drain and fill with the $30/quart OEM bottle

27.gif
 
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Originally Posted by discountdon
if I was the OP...

I would add Hy-per Lube Oil Supplement to the existing Red Line fill to improve the viscosity before pondering a drain and fill with the $30/quart OEM bottle

27.gif




I wouldn't do that as it will only increase viscosity past the required viscosity needed.
 
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Originally Posted by timoboy
2012 Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv 6MT, looking for MTF recommendations. 75W80 GL4. Early transmission with 1.8 qt capacity.


...All the hoopla on the Mazda forums said use Redline MTL. Lots of talk on here to use that as well. Drained fluid, looked very good for its age minimal particles and not very dark. Verified 1.8 quarts came out. Did a fill of MTL.

What a downgrade! Challenging to shift from R to 1st now, cold shifting performance is terrible (I'm in Southern California so cold being 55 deg). Seems to be additional vibrations when decelerating now in gear. This stuff just feels like garbage compared to the original fluid. First time ever I'd consider putting the old fluid back in.

Any recommendations for a good GL4 75W80? OEM is $60 for two bottles at the dealer, but will purchase if no other good options. If redline offered a guarantee I'd be sending it back.


Did you have a VOA or a UOA done to see what the actual viscosity of the OEM fluid happened to be? If so that would have helped in the selection of an aftermarket fluid.

Many of the later transmissions were, are using MTF's in the lower viscosity ranges.

SAE 75W80 can cover quite a viscosity range from 4.5 cSt@100C to 10 cSt@100C.

BITOG Viscosity Chart

The list below shows some fluids covering the lower viscosity range;

NOTE: This list is only a "suggested" list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement nor a critique of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those with excessive wear.

A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.X cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
6. Redline MT-LV SAE Viscosity Grade 70W/75W Vis 6.5cst@100°C


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.6 cSt@100C versions (SAE 70W75) (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 ,3
7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)
8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)
9.0 Pentosin FFL-4
10. Redline Power Steering Fluid
11. RAVENOL STF

Note: C, D and E are often considered popularly as "synchromesh" fluids.

C. The next higher viscosity MTL group is in the 8.0 cSt to 8.9 cSt Range would be:

1. Castrol Syntrans V FE (8.0cSt)
2. Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
3. BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
4. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 8.8 cSt
5. RAVENOL PSA (8.9 cSt)


D. The next higher viscosity MTL group in the 9.0 to 9.5 cSt range is (SAE 75W80):

1. Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
2. Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.0 cSt
3. RAVENOL SSG 9.5 cSt


E. The next group of MTL's are in the 9.6 to 10.X cSt range (SAE 75W80):

1. Redline MTL 75W80
2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)
3. GM Synchromesh's
4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF
7. Motylgear 75W-80


The important property is the kinematic viscosity at 100C, which is an indirect indication of the minimum film thickness for protection of gear teeth and bearings at high temperatures. The 40C specification "may" be an indication of how well the fluid may perform at colder temperatures.
 
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*Update*

Used my Costco Membership parts discount (15%) at a different Mazda dealer that sells their parts for MSRP before discount (no markup), got OEM fluid for around $25/qt.

Car shifts like new. Literally "sucks" into the lower gears with gentle shifting. I didn't own the car new so I can only guess but it was stellar already with 165k. Now its better, considering its got the original clutch I think it wasn't abused so this is a very close approximation of new shift feel. I had a buddy who daily drives an S2000 try it, he was amazed how good the transmission in this thing is.

After refilling, I started up cold and put into reverse, could tell right away it was fixed, gear engagement N -> R -> 1 no problem. Silent operation and no noticeable difference between cold and warm just like I remembered with the old fluid.

Just some more very un-scientific observations:

OEM Mazda fluid is a dark amber with a strong gear oil odor. Sloshing in the bottle and pouring, it is definitely "thicker" than the MTL however flows just as quickly if not faster. When poured each drop bounces then spins around the funnel all the way down through the spout.

The non Skyactiv MT models use totally different transmissions and seem more tolerant of fluids outside OEM, we have a '06 5 with the 5MT, it has MT-90 and seems happy.


This is special stuff, very deserving of the $25-30 a bottle Mazda commands. If you have an early ('12-13+?) Skyactiv 6MT, I personally wouldn't use any other fluid, or change it prior to 100k, YMMV.
 
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Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Surprising. Many folks DO like the Redline MTL... and it is the correct grade (+ it is the correct GL-4). However, it is a bit LOWER in viscosity than some other 75W-80 transaxle / transmission lubricants (as, of course, 75W-80 is a RANGE of viscosities... a tolerance). Usually slightly lower viscosity actually improves the shift feel (with, in my opinion, a slight degradation of the protection it offers to the rolling element bearings and the gear teeth). The other factor, here, is that Redline claims to have specially engineered the synchro-compatible "drag or coefficient of friction" fluid parameters... dynamic versus static (sorry, I am not being 'real clear, here).

I have a 17 Mazda6 6MT with the C66M-R SkyActiv transaxle.... It may be the same as yours, actually. I have very very low miles on mine... and it remains with the OEM factory fill. It feels a bit notchy unless I shift it in its own (peculiar) manner. I am NOT talking, cold, here... as every last manual transmission I've driven feels different (and usually a bit "notchy") when cold versus at full operating temp. My SkyActiv 6MT likes me to slightly delay my shift from first to second... I am not talking, here, as if I do not pause in neutral a decent amount of time when shifting a normal 5MT or 6MT. I DO! But on the first to second shift, the SkyActiv wants me to pause even a bit longer... and then when doing this - no notchiness when at full op temp. I personally think that Mazda botched the design on the triple cone synchronizers... on first and second gears - 'cuz all of the rest of the gears (with I believe, single cone synchronizers) are smooth as butter when shifted in my normal-duration pause-thru-neutral manner. First and second... not so! Finicky
frown.gif
....

...Others have said that you 'kinda need to give a transmission 500 miles on a new fluid to actually fully have it behave how it is intending to for the majority of the fluid's useful operating life.

I believe strongly that a manual transmission has to be nursed to operating temp (and I do so, and treat it really well, when it is warming up)... I believe that the feel of the transmission at full operating temp is the one you need to pay attention to. I attach a comment VW made, some years ago, re the choice of a lubricant. Other snips, too.

YMMV...



I've driven later model Skyactiv 6MT models, and came away unimpressed, especially the pair of new 3 VIN hatches I tested that crunched into 1st and 2nd no matter what you did. As someone that works in vehicle logistics at the port that receives Mazda from Japan and Mexico, anyone that tells you they are made to the same standard doesn't know what they are talking about. The J VIN 6 was much better but still felt inferior to the early '12 6MT in mine. The CX5 while it was still available with the MT shifted very well also. The '19 J VIN 3 MT hatch is phenomenal. Once they come down in price I'll be looking for one used. Odd that they all use derivatives of the same c66 but such difference in feel, likely same fluid too. As you mentioned though, every manual is a bit different. None as bad as the 2nd gen XB I had though!
 
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Redline MTF stinks. Always has imo. Had a good run because the bmw catalogs pushed it, and it does feel good initially.

I found that the Amsoil MTFs are far superior for sustained shift feel for the long run - much longer than redline performs.

Pick the Amsoil MTF that meets your viscosity need.
 
Interesting observation on the differences between the Mexico and Japan assembled vehicles.

I hope the new Mazda Toyota assembly plant in Alabama does better.

There have been many remarks on the difference between the Mazda value line filters vs the ones from Thailand or Japan. The latter ones are preferred.
 
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