I was more specifically speaking about the auto oil. I wonder how bad it will shear in a wet clutch?
Motul 300V
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wet clutch doesnt shear the oil, the gearbox does it.
I think typical auto oil will have less add pack to resists the wear coming from the mechanical gear mesh, and it is quite typical the same oil used for 5k on car will need to be changed every 1.5K in share sump motorbike.
Many have better experience running diesel oil than gasoline oil.
I think typical auto oil will have less add pack to resists the wear coming from the mechanical gear mesh, and it is quite typical the same oil used for 5k on car will need to be changed every 1.5K in share sump motorbike.
Many have better experience running diesel oil than gasoline oil.
Originally Posted By: "quarterliter"
I was speaking more specifically about auto oil. I wonder how badly it will shear in a wet sump.
I'll agree with kr_bitog here, it's the transmission in the "shared sump" paradigm that's hard on the oil's viscosity.
Originally Posted By: "kr_bitog"
I think typical auto oil will have less add pack to resists the wear coming from the mechanical gear mesh, and it is quite typical the same oil used for 5k on car will need to be changed every 1.5K in share sump motorbike.
I think Mobil 1 auto Racing oil is anything but typical car oil, it's a different balance of additives from the standard street car Mobil 1, and AFE, HM, and EP.
With that being said, I thought that from Mobil 1's development work with McLaren Ilmor and Mercedes F-1 they got the best VII's in the add pack and other race-orientated features... so if you could get around the the very high concentration of moly friction modifiers (FM) without putting new meaning to the term "slipper" clutch on your bike, did't mind the 2500 - 3000 ppm zddp attacking your cats like a mad dog, had no objection to high levels of silicates for anti-foaming at high temperature/ redline operation, and weren't worried about the rather paultry dosage of detergents and TBN fortification it might go a long ways because the base oils likely have a very high and stabile viscosity index that requires a fairly low level of those top shelf VII's. Same with the fairly high HTHSV & very low NOACK.
But the common practice for racers using M1 auto Racing oil is to run one event and replace when doing the subsequent teardown. M1 auto Racing is best used with high valve spring rates, bearing loads, fuel dilution, high temperature, and no catalytic converters.
Similarly, if you had to describe Motul's 300V's exposure in the racing world, you might notice it's not only popular with the Moto GP and World Superbike teams, but alot of endurance sports cars racers seem to prefer some flavors of the auto version. 24 Hours of Le Mans, Daytona, Nurburgring etc. With decent detergent level and starting TBN, Motul 300V is also marketed to high zoot supercars and (sometimes modded-) performance street cars.
M1 auto Racing recommends itself strictly for auto racing. I'd be interested to see who's running it successfully in a wet clutch shared sump bike and have good UOA's to back it up.
I was speaking more specifically about auto oil. I wonder how badly it will shear in a wet sump.
I'll agree with kr_bitog here, it's the transmission in the "shared sump" paradigm that's hard on the oil's viscosity.
Originally Posted By: "kr_bitog"
I think typical auto oil will have less add pack to resists the wear coming from the mechanical gear mesh, and it is quite typical the same oil used for 5k on car will need to be changed every 1.5K in share sump motorbike.
I think Mobil 1 auto Racing oil is anything but typical car oil, it's a different balance of additives from the standard street car Mobil 1, and AFE, HM, and EP.
With that being said, I thought that from Mobil 1's development work with McLaren Ilmor and Mercedes F-1 they got the best VII's in the add pack and other race-orientated features... so if you could get around the the very high concentration of moly friction modifiers (FM) without putting new meaning to the term "slipper" clutch on your bike, did't mind the 2500 - 3000 ppm zddp attacking your cats like a mad dog, had no objection to high levels of silicates for anti-foaming at high temperature/ redline operation, and weren't worried about the rather paultry dosage of detergents and TBN fortification it might go a long ways because the base oils likely have a very high and stabile viscosity index that requires a fairly low level of those top shelf VII's. Same with the fairly high HTHSV & very low NOACK.
But the common practice for racers using M1 auto Racing oil is to run one event and replace when doing the subsequent teardown. M1 auto Racing is best used with high valve spring rates, bearing loads, fuel dilution, high temperature, and no catalytic converters.
Similarly, if you had to describe Motul's 300V's exposure in the racing world, you might notice it's not only popular with the Moto GP and World Superbike teams, but alot of endurance sports cars racers seem to prefer some flavors of the auto version. 24 Hours of Le Mans, Daytona, Nurburgring etc. With decent detergent level and starting TBN, Motul 300V is also marketed to high zoot supercars and (sometimes modded-) performance street cars.
M1 auto Racing recommends itself strictly for auto racing. I'd be interested to see who's running it successfully in a wet clutch shared sump bike and have good UOA's to back it up.
Originally Posted By: quarterliter
Phishin where do you get your M1R from?
I don't use/require much M1 Racing oil. I only use it in one bike, and the motor only holds 0.7 quarts. LOL!!
And I mix the M1R 0w50 and M1 0w20 AFE in equal amounts. 350 mls of each goes into the engine. I change the oil every 600-700 miles.
Phishin where do you get your M1R from?
I don't use/require much M1 Racing oil. I only use it in one bike, and the motor only holds 0.7 quarts. LOL!!
And I mix the M1R 0w50 and M1 0w20 AFE in equal amounts. 350 mls of each goes into the engine. I change the oil every 600-700 miles.
So you just buy it online? Where is the best place to get it?
Originally Posted By: sunruh
i havent tested the 300V.
i've only tested the 5100 at this point
i doubt you will ever see a failure because of the oil itself.
Sunruh, I know this thread is a year old, but I'm thinking of trying
the Motul 5100 10-40 in my '14 Can Am. Did it test out well, or just so-so?
i havent tested the 300V.
i've only tested the 5100 at this point
i doubt you will ever see a failure because of the oil itself.
Sunruh, I know this thread is a year old, but I'm thinking of trying
the Motul 5100 10-40 in my '14 Can Am. Did it test out well, or just so-so?
i tested the Motul 5100 10w50 and actually even had a voa done on it.
awesome oil!!!
but that was the 10w50 not 10w40.
its a top 5 pick regardless of if you need cold flow or not.
put up a susvis of 84.3 with 1.0% fuel in it and flash of 385.
considering that voa showed susvis of 85.5 and 430 flash.
steve
awesome oil!!!
but that was the 10w50 not 10w40.
its a top 5 pick regardless of if you need cold flow or not.
put up a susvis of 84.3 with 1.0% fuel in it and flash of 385.
considering that voa showed susvis of 85.5 and 430 flash.
steve
Originally Posted By: sunruh
i tested the Motul 5100 10w50 and actually even had a voa done on it.
awesome oil!!!
but that was the 10w50 not 10w40.
its a top 5 pick regardless of if you need cold flow or not.
put up a susvis of 84.3 with 1.0% fuel in it and flash of 385.
considering that voa showed susvis of 85.5 and 430 flash.
steve
Thanks for the feedback. I'm waiting now for lab results of Amsoil at 4K. At some point I want to give the 5100 a try and it sounds like it might be a good product for the Can Am.
i tested the Motul 5100 10w50 and actually even had a voa done on it.
awesome oil!!!
but that was the 10w50 not 10w40.
its a top 5 pick regardless of if you need cold flow or not.
put up a susvis of 84.3 with 1.0% fuel in it and flash of 385.
considering that voa showed susvis of 85.5 and 430 flash.
steve
Thanks for the feedback. I'm waiting now for lab results of Amsoil at 4K. At some point I want to give the 5100 a try and it sounds like it might be a good product for the Can Am.
why run m1 when you can run something better? (if the price is deemed worth it)
sure but what under what criteria is the top 5 list?
bang for buck or just best regardless of price?
because that simple change in criteria changes everything.
bang for buck or just best regardless of price?
because that simple change in criteria changes everything.
I'd like to see best regardless of price. But a that's just me
maxima 4extra 15w50 is the king out of all my tests.
motul 5100 10w50 is 2nd
these both put up big number considering they also had 1.0% fuel in them.
the best numbers i have ever see however were with valvoline vr1 sae50....flash of 465 !!! and susvis of 90.3 after a race. no less. a 2nd test of this even got 90.8 !!!
number 4 will shock quite a few people. and it might even be #1 in certain conditions.....castrol syntec 0w30 (gc) as good as maxima 10w40 but thinner and more shear stable. think about that.
number 5 has to go to supertech 15w40 hedo...the old version great numbers and was a price that couldnt be beat with a stick. oh and you can find it ANYWHERE in the USA.
now if you can run a sae40 or sae30 honorable mentions to exxon superflo sae50, sae40 and pennzoil sae30hd. all great.
now, please understand that my criteria for my ranking is how well does the oil hold up and do its job in a race bike during a race. this isnt a can it do X miles. can it go a year. no, it's can it live through a multi hour hare scramble or enduro with the motor averaging 8k for the entire time. in a shared sump. and yes the left foot knows very quickly how well it shifts at the end. those on this list shift the same at the end of the race as they do at the begining.
also keep in mind that my testing has always been done the same way and it is not fast. my testing is very involved. it is not just 1 oil change, but 2. with hours on the 1st before the 2nd is even done and that is only under race conditions.
motul 5100 10w50 is 2nd
these both put up big number considering they also had 1.0% fuel in them.
the best numbers i have ever see however were with valvoline vr1 sae50....flash of 465 !!! and susvis of 90.3 after a race. no less. a 2nd test of this even got 90.8 !!!
number 4 will shock quite a few people. and it might even be #1 in certain conditions.....castrol syntec 0w30 (gc) as good as maxima 10w40 but thinner and more shear stable. think about that.
number 5 has to go to supertech 15w40 hedo...the old version great numbers and was a price that couldnt be beat with a stick. oh and you can find it ANYWHERE in the USA.
now if you can run a sae40 or sae30 honorable mentions to exxon superflo sae50, sae40 and pennzoil sae30hd. all great.
now, please understand that my criteria for my ranking is how well does the oil hold up and do its job in a race bike during a race. this isnt a can it do X miles. can it go a year. no, it's can it live through a multi hour hare scramble or enduro with the motor averaging 8k for the entire time. in a shared sump. and yes the left foot knows very quickly how well it shifts at the end. those on this list shift the same at the end of the race as they do at the begining.
also keep in mind that my testing has always been done the same way and it is not fast. my testing is very involved. it is not just 1 oil change, but 2. with hours on the 1st before the 2nd is even done and that is only under race conditions.
The different between race use and normal road use is that in race, most of time after a few hard races, the oil is being dumped. However for road use, the oil have to go through a certain mileage before a change .Any comments for that Sunruh ??
i think it has shown time and time again that if an oil can stand up in race conditions, it will in normal road use as well.
a race (usually from its stress, load, high rpm) takes all of the same miles of a long road use and condenses it down to just a few hours. so if all of the parts are kept safe in a race, they will be in normal road use.
realize there are 2 types of motors (basically) in bikes.
big bore big stroke air cooled vtwin car motors
and
1-4cylinder inline water cooled high reving motors...some cbr/gxr/yzf/zx are modeled after f1 designs. they also have shared sumps.
1 style has to deal with the loads of high torque per stroke and the other with insane rpm. having the film strength to handle either or both is critical. and in the 1 version, also not sheer down to water because of the tranny gears.
a race (usually from its stress, load, high rpm) takes all of the same miles of a long road use and condenses it down to just a few hours. so if all of the parts are kept safe in a race, they will be in normal road use.
realize there are 2 types of motors (basically) in bikes.
big bore big stroke air cooled vtwin car motors
and
1-4cylinder inline water cooled high reving motors...some cbr/gxr/yzf/zx are modeled after f1 designs. they also have shared sumps.
1 style has to deal with the loads of high torque per stroke and the other with insane rpm. having the film strength to handle either or both is critical. and in the 1 version, also not sheer down to water because of the tranny gears.
Originally Posted By: Lorenzo
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
There is not a finer, more expensive basestock oil available on the retail market today. I challenge anyone to show me a synthetic oil on the market with a better advertised basestock than Motul 300V.
I totally agree! If you don't believe that 300V has REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or Ninjas will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.
Motul 300V is sooooooooooo sweet that I want to [censored] my pants. I can't believe it sometimes, but I feel it inside my heart. 300V is totally awesome and that's a fact. 300V is fast, smooth, cool, strong, powerful, and sweet.
I was just remembering this post, and literally started laughing out loud, so I searched it out and bumped it because it may be the most hilarious post in BITOG history.
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
There is not a finer, more expensive basestock oil available on the retail market today. I challenge anyone to show me a synthetic oil on the market with a better advertised basestock than Motul 300V.
I totally agree! If you don't believe that 300V has REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or Ninjas will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.
Motul 300V is sooooooooooo sweet that I want to [censored] my pants. I can't believe it sometimes, but I feel it inside my heart. 300V is totally awesome and that's a fact. 300V is fast, smooth, cool, strong, powerful, and sweet.
I was just remembering this post, and literally started laughing out loud, so I searched it out and bumped it because it may be the most hilarious post in BITOG history.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
number 4 will shock quite a few people. and it might even be #1 in certain conditions.....castrol syntec 0w30 (gc) as good as maxima 10w40 but thinner and more shear stable. think about that.
Oh yea... thin is in... less oil drag = more RWHP...
number 4 will shock quite a few people. and it might even be #1 in certain conditions.....castrol syntec 0w30 (gc) as good as maxima 10w40 but thinner and more shear stable. think about that.
Oh yea... thin is in... less oil drag = more RWHP...
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