Motorcycle: $290 nail finds new home
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Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons. Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons. Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons.
Yes, for at least the fourth time.
Quote
Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Because (yet again, at least the third time) the tire is not and never was the limiting factor in the bike's handling. The limiting factor on the wing (like most big touring bikes) is clearance. Being slightly taller, the car tire adds clearance compared to the stock tire.
Quote
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Because the lawyers told them to.
Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons.
Yes, for at least the fourth time.
Quote
Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Because (yet again, at least the third time) the tire is not and never was the limiting factor in the bike's handling. The limiting factor on the wing (like most big touring bikes) is clearance. Being slightly taller, the car tire adds clearance compared to the stock tire.
Quote
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Because the lawyers told them to.
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by 02SE
Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons.
Yes, for at least the fourth time.
Quote
Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Because (yet again, at least the third time) the tire is not and never was the limiting factor in the bike's handling. The limiting factor on the wing (like most big touring bikes) is clearance. Being slightly taller, the car tire adds clearance compared to the stock tire.
Quote
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Because the lawyers told them to.
So how do you explain that every "darksided" bike I've ridden, the handling anomalies and limitations of the car tire is readily apparent?
If they can't tell the difference, I would strongly suggest they get some competent riding instruction, to improve their riding ability.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons.
Yes, for at least the fourth time.
Quote
Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Because (yet again, at least the third time) the tire is not and never was the limiting factor in the bike's handling. The limiting factor on the wing (like most big touring bikes) is clearance. Being slightly taller, the car tire adds clearance compared to the stock tire.
Quote
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Because the lawyers told them to.
So how do you explain that every "darksided" bike I've ridden, the handling anomalies and limitations of the car tire is readily apparent?
If they can't tell the difference, I would strongly suggest they get some competent riding instruction, to improve their riding ability.
Last edited:
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by 02SE
Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons.
Yes, for at least the fourth time.
Quote
Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Because (yet again, at least the third time) the tire is not and never was the limiting factor in the bike's handling. The limiting factor on the wing (like most big touring bikes) is clearance. Being slightly taller, the car tire adds clearance compared to the stock tire.
Quote
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Because the lawyers told them to.
So how do you explain that every "darksided" bike I've ridden, the handling anomalies and limitations of the car tire is readily apparent?
Confirmation bias.
Quote
If they can't tell the difference, I would strongly suggest they get some competent riding instruction, to improve their riding ability.
I will give you one trillion dollars if you can show where I said that. Now GO TO IT!
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by 02SE
Work on yours.
You claimed your "veteran darksiders" did it for safety reasons.
Yes, for at least the fourth time.
Quote
Poorer handling does not increase safety.
By all means though, explain how a car tire makes a Goldwing handle better, but why it wouldn't on a sportbike.
Because (yet again, at least the third time) the tire is not and never was the limiting factor in the bike's handling. The limiting factor on the wing (like most big touring bikes) is clearance. Being slightly taller, the car tire adds clearance compared to the stock tire.
Quote
Also, explain why Honda engineers install motorcycle tires on a Goldwing, when in your opinion a car tire is better.
Because the lawyers told them to.
So how do you explain that every "darksided" bike I've ridden, the handling anomalies and limitations of the car tire is readily apparent?
Confirmation bias.
Quote
If they can't tell the difference, I would strongly suggest they get some competent riding instruction, to improve their riding ability.
I will give you one trillion dollars if you can show where I said that. Now GO TO IT!
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
So...your personal experience comes to-exactly-zero and therefore means nothing. Noted.
Quote
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
The high pressures are only (sometimes) needed when mounting. Seems pretty much random, depending on bike and tire brands. I talked to someone who darksided (Yokohama, I think) a Honda Helix...he said the tire mounted easily. (He darksided because there are no MC tires in his size rated for >60MPH.)
Quote
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
You get right on that testing, then. Three or four million dollars should get the ball rolling.
Of course...if rear tires on touring bikes didn't have a distressing tendency to last about 5,000 miles and/or come apart violently at highway speeds, darksiding would not be necessary. (Many darksiders use run-flat tires for that reason.) The rated weight capacity often being ludicrously low (it's about 450lbs-before adding any accessories or even a top box-on many Goldwings-solely to let Honda use an inadequate rear tire) on touring bikes.
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
So...your personal experience comes to-exactly-zero and therefore means nothing. Noted.
Quote
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
The high pressures are only (sometimes) needed when mounting. Seems pretty much random, depending on bike and tire brands. I talked to someone who darksided (Yokohama, I think) a Honda Helix...he said the tire mounted easily. (He darksided because there are no MC tires in his size rated for >60MPH.)
Quote
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
You get right on that testing, then. Three or four million dollars should get the ball rolling.
Of course...if rear tires on touring bikes didn't have a distressing tendency to last about 5,000 miles and/or come apart violently at highway speeds, darksiding would not be necessary. (Many darksiders use run-flat tires for that reason.) The rated weight capacity often being ludicrously low (it's about 450lbs-before adding any accessories or even a top box-on many Goldwings-solely to let Honda use an inadequate rear tire) on touring bikes.
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
To your first thought: I guess I just keep hoping that common sense will prevail. Clearly it won't in this instance.
To the second thought: They are so interested in saving a buck (the real reason for using car tire on a bike, regardless of what they or their supporters might state) that they intentionally overlook the handling anomalies and limitations induced by the car tire, or they lack the ability to recognize those deficiencies. Or they do realize the deficiencies, and are simply in denial.
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
To your first thought: I guess I just keep hoping that common sense will prevail. Clearly it won't in this instance.
To the second thought: They are so interested in saving a buck (the real reason for using car tire on a bike, regardless of what they or their supporters might state) that they intentionally overlook the handling anomalies and limitations induced by the car tire, or they lack the ability to recognize those deficiencies. Or they do realize the deficiencies, and are simply in denial.
Originally Posted by Silk
Originally Posted by Trav
In fact it is illegal in some countries to patch or plug a MC tire..
It's not illegal to plug (we call it string repair) here in NZ, but is for emergency repair only - we pick up the string repair on inspection and then it needs a proper repair. This is because of unseen internal damage - removing the tyre for a puncture the internal structure of the tyre can be inspected. I've seen this particularly with motorcycle tyres, being narrower - a long nail can cut the cords internally. For car tyres it's mainly damage from running flat (motorcycles generally don't run for long with a flat tyre) and you can see this damage better from the inside - it'll look good externally, and be toast on the inside. As someone who repairs tyres, I think it's a good rule.
It is a good rule/law, maddening if you have only have a few km on them but seeing how catastrophic the result of a failure can be I rather replace it than worry about it.
Originally Posted by Trav
In fact it is illegal in some countries to patch or plug a MC tire..
It's not illegal to plug (we call it string repair) here in NZ, but is for emergency repair only - we pick up the string repair on inspection and then it needs a proper repair. This is because of unseen internal damage - removing the tyre for a puncture the internal structure of the tyre can be inspected. I've seen this particularly with motorcycle tyres, being narrower - a long nail can cut the cords internally. For car tyres it's mainly damage from running flat (motorcycles generally don't run for long with a flat tyre) and you can see this damage better from the inside - it'll look good externally, and be toast on the inside. As someone who repairs tyres, I think it's a good rule.
It is a good rule/law, maddening if you have only have a few km on them but seeing how catastrophic the result of a failure can be I rather replace it than worry about it.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
To your first thought: I guess I just keep hoping that common sense will prevail. Clearly it won't in this instance.
It has-a tire that is a hand grenade with the pin pulled is, obviously, a very bad choice. The stock weight rating on many touring bikes makes the stock tire a hand grenade with the pin pulled.
Quote
To the second thought: They are so interested in saving a buck (the real reason for using car tire on a bike, regardless of what they or their supporters might state) that they intentionally overlook the handling anomalies and limitations induced by the car tire, or they lack the ability to recognize those deficiencies. Or they do realize the deficiencies, and are simply in denial.
No matter how many times you repost this, it is still wrong. Having been corrected repeatedly, continuing to regurgitate it can therefore only be called lying.
Offhand, this dude darksided because no other tire that fit his Victory Cross Country was suitable for ~500 miles of unpaved road.
![[Linked Image from octanepress.com]](https://octanepress.com/sites/default/files/blog_ironbutt_image4.jpg "[Linked Image from octanepress.com]")
IIRC, he ran a run-flat winter tire in back, and a reversed rear dual-sport tire in front.
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
2 thoughts:
First is that my experience is that after the second exchange, it ought to be obvious that neither side is going to concede - arguing further accomplishes nothing.
Second, I've always wondered when reporting on using a passenger car tire on a motorcycle, why all the Darkside (tm) people don't comment on the way the vehicle has to rise as the vehicle leans. (OK, it's a bit more complicated than that.) Surely that is worth commenting on - and in my opinion, without having ridden on a motorcycle so equipped - should result in a kind of weird feeling and less predictable handling. But until now, I had never encountered anyone who had ridden such a vehicle who also wasn't invested in the setup.
Further, I pointed out many, many years ago, that SOME diameter motorcycle wheels are LARGER than passenger car wheels (I forget which) - AND that ought to result in higher pressures to seat the passenger car tire on a motorcycle wheel (confirmed by reports on Darkside websites) - and, perhaps some damaged or exploding tires (also confirmed on these same Darkside websites). And yet, the darksiders aren't phased by this. I chalk this up to confirmation bias.
I followed that up with a request to the company's rep to the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer's Association), to consider a bulletin warning against the practice. It is here: USTMA - TISB 28 I see they are on version 4, which means this has been modified 4 times since I first brought it to their attention.
At this point, I don't have any confidence that Darksiders are being accurate in their assessment of passenger car tires on motorcycles and I refuse to be persuaded by their assertions until there is a double blind ride test - that is, neither the rider nor the test administrators know what is being ridden on - until afterwards. And that still doesn't deal with the differences in the diameter of the wheels.
To your first thought: I guess I just keep hoping that common sense will prevail. Clearly it won't in this instance.
It has-a tire that is a hand grenade with the pin pulled is, obviously, a very bad choice. The stock weight rating on many touring bikes makes the stock tire a hand grenade with the pin pulled.
Quote
To the second thought: They are so interested in saving a buck (the real reason for using car tire on a bike, regardless of what they or their supporters might state) that they intentionally overlook the handling anomalies and limitations induced by the car tire, or they lack the ability to recognize those deficiencies. Or they do realize the deficiencies, and are simply in denial.
No matter how many times you repost this, it is still wrong. Having been corrected repeatedly, continuing to regurgitate it can therefore only be called lying.
Offhand, this dude darksided because no other tire that fit his Victory Cross Country was suitable for ~500 miles of unpaved road.
IIRC, he ran a run-flat winter tire in back, and a reversed rear dual-sport tire in front.
Uh huh.
Should I post the people I know personally, that have ridden to Prudhoe Bay and back, and around much of the lower 48, on M/C tires? During the same ride?
Face it. You (and others) like to be cheap, and are willing to compromise handling to save a buck.
Should I post the people I know personally, that have ridden to Prudhoe Bay and back, and around much of the lower 48, on M/C tires? During the same ride?
Face it. You (and others) like to be cheap, and are willing to compromise handling to save a buck.
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by 02SE
Uh huh.
Should I post the people I know personally, that have ridden to Prudhoe Bay and back, and around much of the lower 48, on M/C tires? During the same ride?
On a 900lb touring bike? Bull.
Quote
Face it. You (and others) like to be cheap, and are willing to compromise handling to save a buck.
Still a lie. You need to STOP LYING NOW.
You are amusing Jarl. When personal insults don't work, you accuse others of lying. With large font for hopefully added effect...
I think any thinking person can comprehend why motorcycles come with motorcycle tires...
It's only the cheap people that install car tires and live with the resulting poor handling, to save a buck.
BTW, one of those friends that has ridden up to Prudhoe and back, and around the lower 48, on a motorcycle with motorcycle tires, has one of his past bikes on display at the Barber Museum. He's not so desperate to save a buck that he'd willingly live with the compromised handling a of a car tire on a bike.
Don't have an aneurysm when you realize that not everyone is willing to sacrifice grip and handling, to be a cheapskate...
Originally Posted by 02SE
Uh huh.
Should I post the people I know personally, that have ridden to Prudhoe Bay and back, and around much of the lower 48, on M/C tires? During the same ride?
On a 900lb touring bike? Bull.
Quote
Face it. You (and others) like to be cheap, and are willing to compromise handling to save a buck.
Still a lie. You need to STOP LYING NOW.
You are amusing Jarl. When personal insults don't work, you accuse others of lying. With large font for hopefully added effect...
I think any thinking person can comprehend why motorcycles come with motorcycle tires...
It's only the cheap people that install car tires and live with the resulting poor handling, to save a buck.
BTW, one of those friends that has ridden up to Prudhoe and back, and around the lower 48, on a motorcycle with motorcycle tires, has one of his past bikes on display at the Barber Museum. He's not so desperate to save a buck that he'd willingly live with the compromised handling a of a car tire on a bike.
Don't have an aneurysm when you realize that not everyone is willing to sacrifice grip and handling, to be a cheapskate...
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
One more time, for the slow child: nobody I know darksides to save money.
You have been corrected, numerous times. Therefore, continuing to repeat the same incorrect statement can only be called a LIE.
Are you capable of replying without personal insults? apparently not. That says more about you than it does about me...
One more time, EVERY darksider claims they do so to get more miles out of a tire. Despite the handling and grip compromise. How many times have you talked about the mileage darksisders get out of a tire?
Now ask yourself: Self, why do they want to get more miles out of a tire, even if it compromises the main characteristics that make riding a motorcycle fun? The answer is that they want to spend less money on tires. Ergo, the reality you can't accept: They are cheap...
One more time, for the slow child: nobody I know darksides to save money.
You have been corrected, numerous times. Therefore, continuing to repeat the same incorrect statement can only be called a LIE.
Are you capable of replying without personal insults? apparently not. That says more about you than it does about me...
One more time, EVERY darksider claims they do so to get more miles out of a tire. Despite the handling and grip compromise. How many times have you talked about the mileage darksisders get out of a tire?
Now ask yourself: Self, why do they want to get more miles out of a tire, even if it compromises the main characteristics that make riding a motorcycle fun? The answer is that they want to spend less money on tires. Ergo, the reality you can't accept: They are cheap...
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
One more time, for the slow child: nobody I know darksides to save money.
You have been corrected, numerous times. Therefore, continuing to repeat the same incorrect statement can only be called a LIE.
Are you capable of replying without personal insults? apparently not. That says more about you than it does about me...
One more time, EVERY darksider claims they do so to get more miles out of a tire.
One reason, yes.
Quote
Despite the handling and grip compromise.
Unsupported speculation.
Quote
How many times have you talked about the mileage darksisders get out of a tire?
Irrelevant question.
Quote
Now ask yourself: Self, why do they want to get more miles out of a tire...
Having to change a tire halfway through a long trip is a major pain, especially if it's unplanned. Having to replace a tire every month or two is also a pain, and has the bike off the road for (at least) a day. A 4-corners ride could easily require THREE tire changes. It's not how long a car tire lasts, it's how quickly a MC tire is worn out and how many have failed due to overheating.
Quote
...even if it compromises the main characteristics that make riding a motorcycle fun?
It doesn't, making the question meaningless.
Quote
The answer is that they want to spend less money on tires. Ergo, the reality you can't accept: They are cheap...
Still an out and out LIE. If they were cheap, they would not use a high-end tire on the back. (One Michelin X-Ice, one Eagle Ultra Grip.) You need to stop lying.
And yet again, at least the fifth time: the main reason is not cost. It is not even longevity. It is, simply, the tendency of rear tires on heavily-loaded touring bikes to come apart at highway speed, because they are inadequate for the weight of the bike. Keep rereading that until you understand it.
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
One more time, for the slow child: nobody I know darksides to save money.
You have been corrected, numerous times. Therefore, continuing to repeat the same incorrect statement can only be called a LIE.
Are you capable of replying without personal insults? apparently not. That says more about you than it does about me...
One more time, EVERY darksider claims they do so to get more miles out of a tire.
One reason, yes.
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Despite the handling and grip compromise.
Unsupported speculation.
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How many times have you talked about the mileage darksisders get out of a tire?
Irrelevant question.
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Now ask yourself: Self, why do they want to get more miles out of a tire...
Having to change a tire halfway through a long trip is a major pain, especially if it's unplanned. Having to replace a tire every month or two is also a pain, and has the bike off the road for (at least) a day. A 4-corners ride could easily require THREE tire changes. It's not how long a car tire lasts, it's how quickly a MC tire is worn out and how many have failed due to overheating.
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...even if it compromises the main characteristics that make riding a motorcycle fun?
It doesn't, making the question meaningless.
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The answer is that they want to spend less money on tires. Ergo, the reality you can't accept: They are cheap...
Still an out and out LIE. If they were cheap, they would not use a high-end tire on the back. (One Michelin X-Ice, one Eagle Ultra Grip.) You need to stop lying.
And yet again, at least the fifth time: the main reason is not cost. It is not even longevity. It is, simply, the tendency of rear tires on heavily-loaded touring bikes to come apart at highway speed, because they are inadequate for the weight of the bike. Keep rereading that until you understand it.
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
One more time, for the slow child: nobody I know darksides to save money.
You have been corrected, numerous times. Therefore, continuing to repeat the same incorrect statement can only be called a LIE.
Are you capable of replying without personal insults? apparently not. That says more about you than it does about me...
One more time, EVERY darksider claims they do so to get more miles out of a tire.
One reason, yes.
Quote
Despite the handling and grip compromise.
Unsupported speculation.
Quote
How many times have you talked about the mileage darksisders get out of a tire?
Irrelevant question.
Quote
Now ask yourself: Self, why do they want to get more miles out of a tire...
Having to change a tire halfway through a long trip is a major pain, especially if it's unplanned. Having to replace a tire every month or two is also a pain, and has the bike off the road for (at least) a day. A 4-corners ride could easily require THREE tire changes. It's not how long a car tire lasts, it's how quickly a MC tire is worn out and how many have failed due to overheating.
Quote
...even if it compromises the main characteristics that make riding a motorcycle fun?
It doesn't, making the question meaningless.
Quote
The answer is that they want to spend less money on tires. Ergo, the reality you can't accept: They are cheap...
Still an out and out LIE. If they were cheap, they would not use a high-end tire on the back. (One Michelin X-Ice, one Eagle Ultra Grip.) You need to stop lying.
And yet again, at least the fifth time: the main reason is not cost. It is not even longevity. It is, simply, the tendency of rear tires on heavily-loaded touring bikes to come apart at highway speed, because they are inadequate for the weight of the bike. Keep rereading that until you understand it.
LOL to your first replies. You are forgetting I have first hand experience riding various 'darksided' bikes. So it's not "speculation"...
"Heavily-loaded". I think you mean overloaded. I can just imagine that poor bike. Rear shock completely compressed, car tire squirming on it's shoulder in any situation where the bike isn't going in a perfectly straight line. I hope they don't lean it onto the car tire sidewall, because the sidewall construction is not designed to be in contact with the ground, because the sidewall never is in it's designed-for-cars application.
I would suggest they pack much lighter, or if it's due to their body weight, lose some weight themselves.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
One more time, for the slow child: nobody I know darksides to save money.
You have been corrected, numerous times. Therefore, continuing to repeat the same incorrect statement can only be called a LIE.
Are you capable of replying without personal insults? apparently not. That says more about you than it does about me...
One more time, EVERY darksider claims they do so to get more miles out of a tire.
One reason, yes.
Quote
Despite the handling and grip compromise.
Unsupported speculation.
Quote
How many times have you talked about the mileage darksisders get out of a tire?
Irrelevant question.
Quote
Now ask yourself: Self, why do they want to get more miles out of a tire...
Having to change a tire halfway through a long trip is a major pain, especially if it's unplanned. Having to replace a tire every month or two is also a pain, and has the bike off the road for (at least) a day. A 4-corners ride could easily require THREE tire changes. It's not how long a car tire lasts, it's how quickly a MC tire is worn out and how many have failed due to overheating.
Quote
...even if it compromises the main characteristics that make riding a motorcycle fun?
It doesn't, making the question meaningless.
Quote
The answer is that they want to spend less money on tires. Ergo, the reality you can't accept: They are cheap...
Still an out and out LIE. If they were cheap, they would not use a high-end tire on the back. (One Michelin X-Ice, one Eagle Ultra Grip.) You need to stop lying.
And yet again, at least the fifth time: the main reason is not cost. It is not even longevity. It is, simply, the tendency of rear tires on heavily-loaded touring bikes to come apart at highway speed, because they are inadequate for the weight of the bike. Keep rereading that until you understand it.
LOL to your first replies. You are forgetting I have first hand experience riding various 'darksided' bikes. So it's not "speculation"...
"Heavily-loaded". I think you mean overloaded. I can just imagine that poor bike. Rear shock completely compressed, car tire squirming on it's shoulder in any situation where the bike isn't going in a perfectly straight line. I hope they don't lean it onto the car tire sidewall, because the sidewall construction is not designed to be in contact with the ground, because the sidewall never is in it's designed-for-cars application.
I would suggest they pack much lighter, or if it's due to their body weight, lose some weight themselves.
Originally Posted by 02SE
LOL to your first replies. You are forgetting I have first hand experience riding various 'darksided' bikes. So it's not "speculation"...
Yet again...I simply don't believe you! You "knew" you'd hate the car tire, so you did. It's called confirmation bias.
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"Heavily-loaded". I think you mean overloaded. I can just imagine that poor bike. Rear shock completely compressed
No, wrong. There is plenty of travel in back. (Wings are air-ride.)
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...car tire squirming on it's shoulder...
No, wrong.
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I hope they don't lean it onto the car tire sidewall, because the sidewall construction is not designed to be in contact with the ground, because the sidewall never is in it's designed-for-cars application.
Nor is there any sidewall contact on a darksided bike. (Zero sidewall wear marks even after 20,000+ miles and multiple floorboard-scraping roads. I have seen more sidewall contact on a car that autocrossed.)
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I would suggest they pack much lighter, or if it's due to their body weight, lose some weight themselves.
He's 6'4" and probably 270 in his riding gear, she might be 170 in hers. Wings are rear-heavy.
LOL to your first replies. You are forgetting I have first hand experience riding various 'darksided' bikes. So it's not "speculation"...
Yet again...I simply don't believe you! You "knew" you'd hate the car tire, so you did. It's called confirmation bias.
Quote
"Heavily-loaded". I think you mean overloaded. I can just imagine that poor bike. Rear shock completely compressed
No, wrong. There is plenty of travel in back. (Wings are air-ride.)
Quote
...car tire squirming on it's shoulder...
No, wrong.
Quote
I hope they don't lean it onto the car tire sidewall, because the sidewall construction is not designed to be in contact with the ground, because the sidewall never is in it's designed-for-cars application.
Nor is there any sidewall contact on a darksided bike. (Zero sidewall wear marks even after 20,000+ miles and multiple floorboard-scraping roads. I have seen more sidewall contact on a car that autocrossed.)
Quote
I would suggest they pack much lighter, or if it's due to their body weight, lose some weight themselves.
He's 6'4" and probably 270 in his riding gear, she might be 170 in hers. Wings are rear-heavy.
I don't see how you can say the guy is lying, he has the U.S. Tire Manufacturers Association and tire experts in full agreement. Not only is the practice illegal in many places but your insurance may not pay leaving you to carry the full cost and reimburse the insurance company for every penny paid out. This sounds like a risky practice I personally wouldn't even consider on any bike.
http://trafficsafe.org/index.php/trafficsafe-investigates-riding-on-the-dark-side-1683/
http://trafficsafe.org/index.php/trafficsafe-investigates-riding-on-the-dark-side-1683/
It's still possible to take up all the travel in air suspension...
I've ridden the previous and newest generation GL1800 on a roadracing track. They can do surprisingly well, provided that they aren't overloaded.
Again you assume you know me. I have/had no preconceived notions of how a car tire would behave on a 'darksided' bike. So far, every one I've ridden, the compromise has been very apparent.
So it's mainly the weight of the riders overloading the bike. If they can't/won't reduce their weight, they'd be smart to find a form of transportation that they don't overload.
A bike with sacked out, overloaded suspension will have less ground clearance. Again, the big factor and problem is overloading.
On some darksided bikes I've tried, I HAVE ridden past the shoulder and onto the sidewall. If the people you know never have really leaned a bike over, maybe they'll never experience that. And maybe they'll be okay with their overloaded, compromised-handling bikes. Hopefully they'll never need the full handling capabilities of their bike.
One last thing, You stated that M/C tires fail due to overheating. I hate to tell you but if they overheat, it's because they are overloaded.
I've ridden the previous and newest generation GL1800 on a roadracing track. They can do surprisingly well, provided that they aren't overloaded.
Again you assume you know me. I have/had no preconceived notions of how a car tire would behave on a 'darksided' bike. So far, every one I've ridden, the compromise has been very apparent.
So it's mainly the weight of the riders overloading the bike. If they can't/won't reduce their weight, they'd be smart to find a form of transportation that they don't overload.
A bike with sacked out, overloaded suspension will have less ground clearance. Again, the big factor and problem is overloading.
On some darksided bikes I've tried, I HAVE ridden past the shoulder and onto the sidewall. If the people you know never have really leaned a bike over, maybe they'll never experience that. And maybe they'll be okay with their overloaded, compromised-handling bikes. Hopefully they'll never need the full handling capabilities of their bike.
One last thing, You stated that M/C tires fail due to overheating. I hate to tell you but if they overheat, it's because they are overloaded.
Originally Posted by Trav
I don't see how you can say the guy is lying, he has the U.S. Tire Manufacturers Association and tire experts in full agreement. Not only is the practice illegal in many places but your insurance may not pay leaving you to carry the full cost and reimburse the insurance company for every penny paid out. This sounds like a risky practice I personally wouldn't even consider on any bike.
http://trafficsafe.org/index.php/trafficsafe-investigates-riding-on-the-dark-side-1683/
I just keep hoping that common sense will prevail.
I especially appreciated this part in that link:
Quote
Since the US online tire retailer had quoted a Michelin car tire as an "ideal example" of what to use on a motorcycle, we spoke to Michelin directly and showed them the YouTube video. Michelin had this to say:
"Using a car tyre in the way illustrated in the video could result in rapid deterioration in the shoulder and sidewall area due to the abnormal flexing which the tyre will undergo, and so in our opinion running car tyres on two wheel motorcycles should be strongly discouraged."
I don't see how you can say the guy is lying, he has the U.S. Tire Manufacturers Association and tire experts in full agreement. Not only is the practice illegal in many places but your insurance may not pay leaving you to carry the full cost and reimburse the insurance company for every penny paid out. This sounds like a risky practice I personally wouldn't even consider on any bike.
http://trafficsafe.org/index.php/trafficsafe-investigates-riding-on-the-dark-side-1683/
I just keep hoping that common sense will prevail.
I especially appreciated this part in that link:
Quote
Since the US online tire retailer had quoted a Michelin car tire as an "ideal example" of what to use on a motorcycle, we spoke to Michelin directly and showed them the YouTube video. Michelin had this to say:
"Using a car tyre in the way illustrated in the video could result in rapid deterioration in the shoulder and sidewall area due to the abnormal flexing which the tyre will undergo, and so in our opinion running car tyres on two wheel motorcycles should be strongly discouraged."
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