Motor Bed-in
- Thread starter Turbodriven
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Well, he's done approximately 300 engines that way. I've only done about 15. But, I do something similar. I also have had excellent results. Only had one of the engines on a dyno, a motorcycle, and it had the highest stock numbers of any that dyno operator had seen for that particular engine. Never had any of the engines consume oil, nor have I ever had any engine problems.
HOWEVER, this is not science, it's just anecdotes. It's your engine, bed it in as you wish. Also, If you ever have an engine that burns oil excessively, I'd recommend the maxium vacuum technique of being in about second gear going down the steepest hill in your area...accelerating up to near redline then cutting the throttle. Repeat a couple of times. THis is SAID to sometimes loosen up stuck ring sets.
HOWEVER, this is not science, it's just anecdotes. It's your engine, bed it in as you wish. Also, If you ever have an engine that burns oil excessively, I'd recommend the maxium vacuum technique of being in about second gear going down the steepest hill in your area...accelerating up to near redline then cutting the throttle. Repeat a couple of times. THis is SAID to sometimes loosen up stuck ring sets.
Thanks, I am aware that some guys do this for track motors and they get good performance results. However I am not comfortable with the longevity of a motor broken in like this....
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He's kinda reinvented the wheel. The procedure, right out of the Perfect Circle® "Doctor of Motors" presentation when I was in auto skewl, merely had you cycle the engine from 30-60 and coast off throttle ...repeat. The pressure/vacuum cycles flexed the rings. Commonly referred to "back in the day" as "shine 'em up and oil 'em down". Now this guy has added all kinds of little "this and that". This is fine on a rebuilt engine ..and I've done it, more sparingly, on newer stuff. The problem that you run into with a new vehicle is that you are also breaking in your differential(s), trans, ..and sometimes a t-case. They may be part of some warning in your owners manual that says to limit that type of stuff for so many miles.
Some of his rhetoric is supported in known, proven, techniques. Some of his rhetoric looks like he pulled it out of his behind on one of his more creative moments of the day. The procedure is pretty much unnecessary with contemporary manufacturing techniques.
Some of his rhetoric is supported in known, proven, techniques. Some of his rhetoric looks like he pulled it out of his behind on one of his more creative moments of the day. The procedure is pretty much unnecessary with contemporary manufacturing techniques.
I doubt you will find many vehicles still running excellent at 100,000+ miles without oil consumption issues using this running in procedure. A less demanding break-in but, still not babying the engine is the way to go I think. I'll back up my idea with the last 4 cars I've broke-in moderently. Saab turbo 167,000 miles, Jeep GC 4.0 195,000 miles, Volvo 750 176,000 miles and my present Subaru at 118,000 miles. The first 3 were sold running great and no issues whatsoever. JMO.
That dude is on crack......nice to break in a racing engine that way but not a daily driver. So the whole world is crazy and he is Albert Einstein Jr.? I really doubt it.
Question: Do you want another 5HP from your engine, or would you rather have another 100,000 miles from your engine?
The person who wrote that article is in the former camp, most of us here are in the later camp.
The person who wrote that article is in the former camp, most of us here are in the later camp.
i still stand by the way i was taught in school, run the motor at 2000-2500rpm for the first 20 mins, change oil, drive at varying load and rpm never going above 4k rpm for 100 miles, change oil. then baby until 500 miles, change oil. change oil at 1000, 2000, 3000, then you can run whatever. but the motors i deal with are usually higher dollar, so people are paranoid.
What school was THAT?!
the city college here. a bunch of hte instructors are very old school in their thinking. but i worked at a shop that built motors that were usually between $10,000 and $25,000 so people would be very paranoid about proper breakin.
On the Ford Truck Forom that I frequent as well. It advacated an extremely similar break in procedure that I followed (cycling accel and decel) and my truck is getting allot better fuel economy (like 5mpg) than some of the other 6.0 powerstroke owners on that board. I am a believer.
Rings and cylinder surfaces that are properly seated together will last longer and provide greater efficency. Read this as less ring and piston heating due to less blow-by. That is if every thing else is properly maintained.
I've broken in every new and rebuilt engine that I got my hands on with this procedure for the last thirty or so years. An old school very respected mechanic taught this same technique to me. Coincidence???
So far nothing but good results. I even got a loosely built max effort (for the time) 355 engine that ran mid 12's (1/4 mile) in a 70 Chevelle to live for almost 60 thousand miles street and strip service before needing a rebuild. And it was in sad shape by then, but boy what a ride while it lasted.
Most of the factory stock engines that I broke in this way ran over 200K miles. One is still in service at 274K miles.
I admit that all these engines may have ran just as long or longer without this type treatment. However I am a believer and I believe that all these engines were a little stronger and more efficient for my efforts. Once again I can't supply difinitive proof.
Rickey.
I've broken in every new and rebuilt engine that I got my hands on with this procedure for the last thirty or so years. An old school very respected mechanic taught this same technique to me. Coincidence???
So far nothing but good results. I even got a loosely built max effort (for the time) 355 engine that ran mid 12's (1/4 mile) in a 70 Chevelle to live for almost 60 thousand miles street and strip service before needing a rebuild. And it was in sad shape by then, but boy what a ride while it lasted.
Most of the factory stock engines that I broke in this way ran over 200K miles. One is still in service at 274K miles.
I admit that all these engines may have ran just as long or longer without this type treatment. However I am a believer and I believe that all these engines were a little stronger and more efficient for my efforts. Once again I can't supply difinitive proof.
Rickey.
I also believe in the moto man's breakin procedure. It works for me. Have used it several times and will continue with all engines in the future.
the 2000rpm for 20 mins is typical instructions for pushrod engines for breaking in the cam and lifters.
read the bottom of page 4 of this pdf from compcams
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/145.pdf
read the bottom of page 4 of this pdf from compcams
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/145.pdf
In the first 4K just tried not to run one RPM for extended periods of time and for the most part not gunning it. But once in a while after about 500 miles I ran it up to redline like once a week until it the first OC. After that ran it like I stole it when I wanted. Now the last UOA was fantastic. Gets great milage. Had a guy at a bike shop explain that a couple of early blasts not frequent mind you but a couple help rock the pistons over fully and let the rings move in their full swing before a land can develop no mater how small. I have used this in all 3 of my new cars and none burn oil, all got great (above average) milage. Must be OK.
I can see this being useful if you are building/rebuilding/installing fresh engines. Every engine is different. New car engines are broken in by the time a customer picks the car up, actually broken in before they are even delivered to the dealer. Moly rings with a proper bore/plateau finish pretty much break in in seconds/minutes and some sort of specialized break in procedure is silly.
Custom engines with chrome plated or stainless rings, then yes, you need to get pressure on the top ring asap and the procedure outlined in the link is one way to do it. Once again though, bore finishes are a heck of a lot better now and torque plates are used even on factory mass produced engines. I can see Motomans logic for the engines he works with.
Custom engines with chrome plated or stainless rings, then yes, you need to get pressure on the top ring asap and the procedure outlined in the link is one way to do it. Once again though, bore finishes are a heck of a lot better now and torque plates are used even on factory mass produced engines. I can see Motomans logic for the engines he works with.
this is from a well respected engine builder in the mustang community. they build very high horsepower for 4.6 and 5.4L motors.
VT Competition Engine Development – Engine Break In Procedures
Your VT Competition Engine Development motor has been assembled by seasoned race engine builders, to the fine specifications they demand. Here is what they recommend for maximum life and performance from your new engine combination:
- Add non-synthetic 5W30 to engine. Upon start up, allow engine to run at 2000 rpm for 2 minutes to allow valvetrain components to fully pump up. Have another person watching the gauges, specifically oil pressure. After the 2 minutes is up, allow engine to idle until it comes to operating temperature. Drive vehicle for a short 10-15 mile cruise to allow load on engine. Do not take motor past 3500rpm. Once back at the shop, drain oil and replace filter, again with non-synthetic 5W30. Put 500 miles on this round of oil, gradually taking engine higher in the rpm band, as miles are put on odometer. At 500 miles, again drain oil and replace filter. Add non-synthetic 5W30 and drive vehicle for another 500 miles. At this time, if you prefer to run Synthetic oils, you may add them now (1000miles). This has given the rings ample time to seat into the cylinder properly. We recommend Mobile1 5W30 synthetic (or a comparable quality) for use in any VT Competition Engine Development motor.
VT Competition Engine Development – Engine Break In Procedures
Your VT Competition Engine Development motor has been assembled by seasoned race engine builders, to the fine specifications they demand. Here is what they recommend for maximum life and performance from your new engine combination:
- Add non-synthetic 5W30 to engine. Upon start up, allow engine to run at 2000 rpm for 2 minutes to allow valvetrain components to fully pump up. Have another person watching the gauges, specifically oil pressure. After the 2 minutes is up, allow engine to idle until it comes to operating temperature. Drive vehicle for a short 10-15 mile cruise to allow load on engine. Do not take motor past 3500rpm. Once back at the shop, drain oil and replace filter, again with non-synthetic 5W30. Put 500 miles on this round of oil, gradually taking engine higher in the rpm band, as miles are put on odometer. At 500 miles, again drain oil and replace filter. Add non-synthetic 5W30 and drive vehicle for another 500 miles. At this time, if you prefer to run Synthetic oils, you may add them now (1000miles). This has given the rings ample time to seat into the cylinder properly. We recommend Mobile1 5W30 synthetic (or a comparable quality) for use in any VT Competition Engine Development motor.
The initial break-in happens in the engine plant, before the engine is shipped to the vehicle assembly plant.
Moto-Man can break in engines any way he wants. But I will continue to ignore at least some of his recommendations... starting with premature oil changes.
Also, while the first 20 miles may be important in breaking in a motorcycle engine, I think most modern car and truck engines take longer for the rings to reach their ultimate fit. So while repeated cycles of hard acceleration and deceleration are helpful, I think it would get very tiresome doing this for 600-1000 miles.
Perhaps in another four years I'll be ready to buy another new diesel-engine car. Then I'll see whether this accelerated break-in procedure has any merit.
when comparing MC engines to automotive engines keep in mind that most MC engines redline between 12-15k rpm. they don't even start to make power until they are past the max rpm of most automotive engines. That means if you were at 1/2 the max rpm with either engine(3000 and 6000), the MC engine is spinning twice as fast so pistons, cams, etc are moving twice as fast and "breaking in" twice as fast.
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