Mobil 1 fans?

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Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Check out some of the recent uoa and you might find proof of a quality cut back. Plus the add pack looks weaker. If it was quality you would not have to defend it so much.
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too. The thing that makes me wonder why so many explanations re. how good it is. Example my close friend has a AMC Gremlin with 345,000 miles ran Mobil only just the light in the trunk not working.
If he ran Amsoil the light would still be working.
 
Originally Posted By: labman
The interesting thing is that likely, Shell, Ashland, Conoco-Phillips, Castrol, etc. all have run it through their labs and know exactly what is in it.
What does that do to proprietary info!!!
 
"...No manufacurers/refiners will give you their proprietary formulas or how much of what is in there...." Take a look at Amtecol Superlife 9000M oil. Their MSDS indicates PAO >70% and additives blender that gives the "real" onformation. I found this information on a site eurosyntheticoils.com
 
Originally Posted By: Dr. E
Take a look at Amtecol Superlife 9000M oil. Their MSDS indicates PAO >70% and additives div>

To be fair, based on the above, you still don't know exactly how much of each component is there.
 
Hi Art,

Sorry if you thought I was admonishing you - that wasn't my intent. Most of us are curious about the base oils used in their favorite motor oil, including me, and discussion about them, even speculation, is fine with me. It is also true that that the base oils are not as important as the specifications and approvals, and that additives dominate many critical properties such as wear, cleanliness, oxidative stability, foam, and corrosion. I was simply trying to pull that into perspective.

Wilhelms point #3 was referring to Group III base oil vs PAO, and he is correct that there is a distinct difference in the pour points of these base oils. This difference, however, does not always carry over into the final formulation, which is why I have always cautioned against predicting base oil types by pour point. Many other ingredients may affect pour point, such as the type and quantity of VI Improver or dispersants, and even other synthetic base oils. For example, the pour point of the alkylated naphthlene that ExxonMobil uses in their M1 line has a pour point of only -38F, as do some esters used in other motor oils, and good pour point depressants can whack a Group III down well below -40.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the pour point test is not very accurate, having a reproducibility of +- 5F, so the same sample that tests -40F on one run can read -50F on the next. Some companies report the average on their data sheets, others report the lowest readings.

That said, PAOs have really low pour points and it is not unreasonable to assume that, in general, finished oils with very low pour points are more likely to contain fair amounts of PAO, but it is not assured. Perhaps my statement that pour point is irrelevant to base oil composition was too strong, maybe unreliable is a better word.

Tom NJ
 
"...To be fair, based on the above...". But let us be even "more fair". Let uss examine what you do know. First, we do know that the product does contain PAO. Second, we do know that it contains more than 70% PAO by volume, not just 2 or 3%. And third, we do know that if the additives ester of any other blender? And, I do not mean words like "100% synthetic based...",etc, but actual delineation of the > or < and the type (group III, IV or V base oil. I cannot find any.
 
Originally Posted By: Dr. E
"...To be fair, based on the above...". But let us be even "more fair". Let uss examine what you do know. First, we do know that the product does contain PAO. Second, we do know that it contains more than 70% PAO by volume, not just 2 or 3%. And third, we do know that if the additives ester of any other blender? And, I do not mean words like "100% synthetic based...",etc, but actual delineation of the > or < and the type (group III, IV or V base oil. I cannot find any.


Well, the MSDS for LUBRO MOLY 0w40 shows 3-7% Mineral Oil.....
 
Great answer!! hahaha!! That is really useful information. Even the difference between 3% and 7% is 233%. Can I assume that the pao, ester or pao/ester content of this oil is between 93% to 97%. Any other examples?
 
Originally Posted By: Dr. E
Great answer!! hahaha!! That is really useful information. Even the difference between 3% and 7% is 233%. Can I assume that the pao, ester or pao/ester content of this oil is between 93% to 97%. Any other examples?

I would think so
 
In all seriousness, can anyone give me some other oils' MSDS's that give the percentages of group III, IV and/or V components?
 
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Hi Art,

Sorry if you thought I was admonishing you - that wasn't my intent. Most of us are curious about the base oils used in their favorite motor oil, including me, and discussion about them, even speculation, is fine with me. It is also true that that the base oils are not as important as the specifications and approvals, and that additives dominate many critical properties such as wear, cleanliness, oxidative stability, foam, and corrosion. I was simply trying to pull that into perspective.

Wilhelms point #3 was referring to Group III base oil vs PAO, and he is correct that there is a distinct difference in the pour points of these base oils. This difference, however, does not always carry over into the final formulation, which is why I have always cautioned against predicting base oil types by pour point. Many other ingredients may affect pour point, such as the type and quantity of VI Improver or dispersants, and even other synthetic base oils. For example, the pour point of the alkylated naphthlene that ExxonMobil uses in their M1 line has a pour point of only -38F, as do some esters used in other motor oils, and good pour point depressants can whack a Group III down well below -40.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the pour point test is not very accurate, having a reproducibility of +- 5F, so the same sample that tests -40F on one run can read -50F on the next. Some companies report the average on their data sheets, others report the lowest readings.

That said, PAOs have really low pour points and it is not unreasonable to assume that, in general, finished oils with very low pour points are more likely to contain fair amounts of PAO, but it is not assured. Perhaps my statement that pour point is irrelevant to base oil composition was too strong, maybe unreliable is a better word.

Tom NJ


Tom,

No. Please don't think I am complaining about you or our discussion.
I am reasonably assuming low pour points correlate with higher PAO content. Can we revisit this later? I'm late for dinner!
 
I am sure that Mobil 1 has gone through a number of formulation changes since it was first introduced years ago (on that, I think that most folks can agree).
I would like to think that most were made to improve the product performance, but in reality, I am sure that there were some changes to get to a price point (all oil companies have to look at the reality of price point).
If something can be done at less cost, and STILL meet the same performance and longevity, then that is certainly something to consider.

Certainly motor oil is radically different than it was in the 70's.

Like many in here, I like reading about what ingredients go into a oil formulation, and how they are blended together, and advantages/disadvantages to each ingredient/formulation.
However, in all honesty, if a company did list all the ingredients, and formulation processes, I would have NO clue as to what that means in terms of what counts, how well it will perform in my vehicle.

I have used Mobil 1 and been very happy with it.
My new favorite is Redline.
However, I am sure that Mobil 1 is still a high quality product.
My choice of oil is based upon my own, layman's opinion.

One thing worth noting, which many posters on this website know better than I do......there are a LOT of different performance charactoristics to consider.
As noted, 0W-40 has some hoops to jump through that a more narrow range, like 5W-20 does not.

Which brings me to say "which Mobil 1?" 5W-20 or 0W-40......EP, T&SUV?....lots of "flavors" to consider.

Price point is also critical.
Anyone who reads more than a few posts on this website is going to catch on to that in a hurry.

Advance Auto Parts tried to carry Redline oils a few years back.
It did not move well enough for them to continue doing so.
I am sure that the Amsoil reps. can also tell us that trying to market Amsoil (which is another product that I highly respect) to the "masses" is an exercise in futility at the price point that they are selling at.
Certainly a better product than the $6 off-the-shelf oil (my opinion), but a hard sell to get many folks to pay more.
However, they sell a quality product to folks who are willing to pay more for the extra quality.

All these pages on a synthetic......and take note of how many posts we see from folks who don't see any "synthetic" as being worth paying more for, when a "cheap dyno" does the job just as well in their application (in their opinion).
 
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: Dr. E
Great answer!! hahaha!! That is really useful information. Even the difference between 3% and 7% is 233%. Can I assume that the pao, ester or pao/ester content of this oil is between 93% to 97%. Any other examples?

I would think so


Brad Penn Product Code: BP-7157

Severely Hydrotreated/Hydrocracked Base Oils 70-80%
Synthetic Hydrocarbon Base Oil 5-10%
Additives 5-10%
Solvent Refined Residual Oil 1-5%
Green Dye
 
Thanks Eagle, I appreciate that. I am somewhat familiar with Brad Penn, but I did not know that they reported the information in their MSDS.
 
Maybe because they don't have to get into the "wetting" contest that the big guys do so they can have a straight forward attitude. They have product data sheets and MSDS for their products with good information in them. Something I find very refreshing as opposed to "I'm sorry, that's prepriatary, just mind your own business and buy our product ignorant customer".


http://www.bradpennracing.com/
 
If I'm found dead tomorrow you know what happened:

Mobil 1 5w30
Product Code: 201510101040, 481119-89


Name CAS# Concentration* GHS Hazard Codes
1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED 68649-12-7 20 - 30% H304
ORGANO MOLY-SULFUR COMPLEX 26997 0.1 - 1% H315, H317, H412
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 147880-09-9 1 - 5% H413
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Name CAS# Concentration* GHS Hazard Codes
1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED 68649-12-7 20 - 30% H304
ORGANO MOLY-SULFUR COMPLEX 26997 0.1 - 1% H315, H317, H412
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 147880-09-9 1 - 5% H413

Cool. I wonder what the remaining 64-79% is.
 
Here, link , is a previous post of showing mineral oil content and slack-wax-type-Group III content of some Mobil 1 oils:

Quote:
I have compiled some info. from these MSDSs. Japanese MSDSs differ from the USA versions at least partly due to different reporting requirements, which is of benefit to us. There are some interesting things shown in the info. The percentage of mineral in the different viscosity grades is one of them. Of note is that only 0W-40 of this set uses the slack wax-type of Group III which is what Shell uses in many of their synthetic motor oils. The most shocking thing is the kerosene tainting the 0W-40 grade. I have looked at many other MSDSs for various Mobil 1 oils but have not included anything on them. Some that I saw had only 5-10% mineral oil.

Mobil 1 Japanese MSDSs: http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/psims.aspx
____________________________________________________

0W-40 – Revised Dec 31, 2008
KEROSENE...0.1-1 %weight...What the
SLACK WAX (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED...50-60 %weight
Mineral Oil...5-10 %weight
_____________________________________________________
5W-40 – Revised Nov 6, 2007
Mineral Oil...30-40 %weight
_____________________________________________________
0W-30 – Revised Nov 7, 2007
Mineral Oil...10-20 %weight
_____________________________________________________
5w30 – Revised Nov 14, 2007
Mineral Oil...40-50 %weight
_____________________________________________________
10W-30 – Revised Dec 21, 2007
Mineral Oil...50-60 %weight
 
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