Mobil 1 - BASE OILS

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buster

buster

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This topic comes up repeatedly on here and I've noticed it's even in the shout box. No one knows for sure what any brand of synthetic contains. Even Amsoil's 5w30 could potentially use some Group III. If it's majority PAO, they won't even mention other base stocks. It's pointless.

From the Japanese Mobil 1 Website:

15w-50 - PAO
0w-40 - PAO
0w-30 - PAO
0w-20 - PAO

5w30 - PAO + Hydroprocessed
10w-30 - " "

How one defines synthetic varies. Only Mobil 1 5w30 "Extended Performance" was tested and showed Group III. Also contained Group V.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Tired of the topic and tired of stickies.....next subject PLEASE!!!


I'm tired of it too.
 
This is an informative website, but lately it seems thats all that is discuessed, is whether a certain oil is group 3 or 4 or 5 and whether or not it's a "true" synthetic or not.

Repeat- repeat- and repeat! Gets very old fast.
 
The only reason I posted it is so maybe people would read it and not jump to false conclusions and post more threads on this subject. Or should I have just let it die on it's own?

Quote:
[TonyMazz] Is there any FACTS on BITOG that says Mobil 1 is Grp III base stock....their site says "Fully Synthetic PAO whattssssup BITOG ?
[G-MAN] I don't see PAO mentioned anywhere on their site.
[G-MAN] In the FAQ it says high perf fluids are used "including PAO." That means something else is used, too.
[TonyMazz] In their FAQ it also asks is Mobil 1 a full synthetic and their answer is YES...are they lying ?
[TonyMazz] Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives
[TonyMazz] false advertising ?
[TonyMazz] I am just confused...
[wwillson] depends on how you interpret "full synthetic"
[Dr_No] exactly
 
I turned off the shout box. The noise went away.
cool.gif
 
If performance in YOUR application, determined by UOA is good, then what is the issue? One is paying for PERFORMANCE, not BASESTOCK, per se. I know some are overcome by the so-called value proposition of using PAO or better basestocks exclusively, but even those setups have their limitations.

We are at a point when the overall chemistry is more important than basestock, IMO.

JMH
 
I normally don't click on this type of thread but I will respond this time. Most new people to oil feel (or think) they want a 100% PAO based oil without realizing that what makes a PAO a good base oil also makes it poor at holding an additive package (very low solubility). PAO are fully saturated (no double bonds or aromatics) which helps it resist chemical attacks but also resists the add-pack at the same time. Group V and/or III are used with PAO's to hold the additives. Esters are very soluable and work very well with PAO's. It doesn't matter if it's a mixture of III, IV, or V's, it's all classified as a synthetic.

Like everything in life, to much of one thing is never good.

my $0.2
 
Originally Posted By: remmious
I normally don't click on this type of thread but I will respond this time. Most new people to oil feel (or think) they want a 100% PAO based oil without realizing that what makes a PAO a good base oil also makes it poor at holding an additive package (very low solubility). PAO are fully saturated (no double bonds or aromatics) which helps it resist chemical attacks but also resists the add-pack at the same time. Group V and/or III are used with PAO's to hold the additives. Esters are very soluable and work very well with PAO's. It doesn't matter if it's a mixture of III, IV, or V's, it's all classified as a synthetic.

Like everything in life, to much of one thing is never good.

my $0.2


cheers3.gif
 
Actually Deep Throat told me it is a new super secretive group -3. Apparantly they have a new POW+ formulation that doesn't even use oil. They insert a layer of vacuum between all surfaces held in place by superconductive layer of POW+ oil. No friction, no heat, even absorbs all the engine noise. You can drive in a stealth quiet mode like that sissy Prius toy.
 
Originally Posted By: remmious
I normally don't click on this type of thread but I will respond this time. Most new people to oil feel (or think) they want a 100% PAO based oil without realizing that what makes a PAO a good base oil also makes it poor at holding an additive package (very low solubility). PAO are fully saturated (no double bonds or aromatics) which helps it resist chemical attacks but also resists the add-pack at the same time. Group V and/or III are used with PAO's to hold the additives. Esters are very soluable and work very well with PAO's. It doesn't matter if it's a mixture of III, IV, or V's, it's all classified as a synthetic.

Like everything in life, to much of one thing is never good.

my $0.2



Thank you very much for this explanation and the time it took to write it.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
If performance in YOUR application, determined by UOA is good, then what is the issue? One is paying for PERFORMANCE, not BASESTOCK, per se. I know some are overcome by the so-called value proposition of using PAO or better basestocks exclusively, but even those setups have their limitations.

We are at a point when the overall chemistry is more important than basestock, IMO.


JMH


Agree 100%. Thats all you need to know.
 
Only one side of the argument is being voiced however. Yes, Grp III may perform as well as (or even better) than say a full PAO. However, Grp III oil is much cheaper than PAO. My disappointment is that the Grp III syns cost as much as PAOs. I would rather pay more and KNOW EXACTLY what I am purchasing versus "marketing" claims.
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: uconn1150
Only one side of the argument is being voiced however. Yes, Grp III may perform as well as (or even better) than say a full PAO. However, Grp III oil is much cheaper than PAO. My disappointment is that the Grp III syns cost as much as PAOs. I would rather pay more and KNOW EXACTLY what I am purchasing versus "marketing" claims.
cheers3.gif



That's exactly it. Consumers don't know what base stock they are getting, it's just all (III's & IV's) called synthetic. PAO's are more expensive to produce than GrIII. Why do you think Mobil made a stink about GrIII being called synthetics (well other than trying corner the main stream market) it cost more to make their product versus other synthetics. A Gr-III will fulfill demands of 99.9% of the average consumer.

ps... Did you know 98% of all statistics are made up
wink.gif
 
I don't have a problem with group 3 oils, in fact the oil in my Corvette right now is using a group 3 base, although Pennzoil Platinum is using the best group 3 money can buy.

My problem with Mobil 1 began long before the "group 3 controversy" though. I just haven't seen a lot of UOAs with M1 that have really blown me away (other than in Toyotas but that's more the engine design than anything else) I just feel that for the money there are much better oils out there. I also don't like the way M1 is hyped up so much in advertising as if they were the best oil in the world.
 
The silence from the M1-Group3 crowd is deafening. Funny how many posts you see saying all Mobil 1 is Group III, etc. until a post like this comes along, when they all scurry away with nothing to say.

Originally Posted By: buster
This topic comes up repeatedly on here and I've noticed it's even in the shout box. No one knows for sure what any brand of synthetic contains. Even Amsoil's 5w30 could potentially use some Group III. If it's majority PAO, they won't even mention other base stocks. It's pointless.

From the Japanese Mobil 1 Website:

15w-50 - PAO
0w-40 - PAO
0w-30 - PAO
0w-20 - PAO

5w30 - PAO + Hydroprocessed
10w-30 - " "

How one defines synthetic varies. Only Mobil 1 5w30 "Extended Performance" was tested and showed Group III. Also contained Group V.
 
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