Who is using it, what vehicle and what kind of use? I've had several customers ask, they have a Porsche and it has been recommended by their service writer in the tone of “you’re car will turn into a pumpkin if you don’t”. One of the dyno guys here said that it’s really 0w-30 after a couple of thousand miles and that’s good enough.
Mobil 1 0w-40
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i have used it in porsche cayenne v8, mazda miata, toyota tundra, and infiniti FX, with excellent results. it is the premiere oil of the M1 line, it meets some specs that none of the others do. it meets a range of specs that no other oil i am aware of does.
it will thin down a bit at first and then thicken back up. it is a better 30wt than M1 0W-30, which is actually more like a 25wt.
it is the ONLY one of the porsche approved oils that is readily available in the US. do a google search on "porsche approved oil list" and you will see the rest of them, most of which i have never seen in person.
0W-30 is NOT a substitute for it. the other M1 oils that are substitutes are the 5W-40 and 5W-50, there are no 30 weight oils on the list of any brand.
it will thin down a bit at first and then thicken back up. it is a better 30wt than M1 0W-30, which is actually more like a 25wt.
it is the ONLY one of the porsche approved oils that is readily available in the US. do a google search on "porsche approved oil list" and you will see the rest of them, most of which i have never seen in person.
0W-30 is NOT a substitute for it. the other M1 oils that are substitutes are the 5W-40 and 5W-50, there are no 30 weight oils on the list of any brand.
Hi,
BarkerMan - My Boxster still looks the same when can I expect the "pumpkin" effect to take place?
Regards
Doug
BarkerMan - My Boxster still looks the same when can I expect the "pumpkin" effect to take place?
Regards
Doug
I've used it several times in my '00 VW GTI 1.8L Turbo. I've had 2 UOA's done on it. One was at 5k miles, while the other was at 6k miles. The oil sheared to a 30 wt both times in my VW, but wear metals were still lower than universal avg's. FWIW, the VW has a 4.8 qt. sump.
I'd use M1 0w40 again in a heartbeat.
I'd use M1 0w40 again in a heartbeat.
So if a 30w will do the job then you can use M1 0w-40 with confidence?
I think that some service writers are instant experts. That service writer has been by here and I think he knows enough to be convincing. He said that Mobil 1 0w-40 is not only the best oil there is but the only one that works in a Porsche. I think it's possible that he is wrong on at least one count and maybe both. Best is a tough one to figure out in engine oil even if you knew what best was.
I think that some service writers are instant experts. That service writer has been by here and I think he knows enough to be convincing. He said that Mobil 1 0w-40 is not only the best oil there is but the only one that works in a Porsche. I think it's possible that he is wrong on at least one count and maybe both. Best is a tough one to figure out in engine oil even if you knew what best was.
Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
they have a Porsche and it has been recommended by their service writer in the tone of “you’re car will turn into a pumpkin if you don’t”
The car may not turn into a pumpkin, but the owner may be in a pickle.
I mean if the Porsche car is still under warranty it is crucial to use an oil on the list and as others have said M1 is the one readily available. Aftermarket warranty companies especially -and I assume manufacturer warranties also- often look for an excuse to exclude an expensive repair such as engine failure from the warranty.
From what I have seen and heard, most boxster and 911 engine failures result from intermediate shaft failures (wide range of years suffer from this poor single bearing design, some years have two bearings), slipped cylinder sleeves (older models), cracked blocks or heads. A few spun bearing stories out there also. The vast majority of engine failures are not a direct result of lack of lubrication, as others have said in other posts.
So my point for Porsches at least is it is important to use M1 or other oil on the list if still under warranty so that cannot be used as an excuse for someone to deny a claim, even though the oil would probably have nothing to do with the failure.
In terms of the service writer, it is amazing how their knowledge (or lack of) varies from one individual to another. Also some feel they need to spout the company line at first and will tell you something different if you really ask them about it or if they know you well. If you are out of warranty, you are free to try other oils. Personally I think the statement about "only one that works in a Porsche" is [censored] and I am open to the possibility there may be better oils out there and am actively looking/testing.
There are 3 M1 0W40 UOAs (5 runs total) from boxsters on this page fyi: mine showed what could be considered slightly elevated fe numbers and 30wt with tbn of 5.2 at 8700 miles (9 quart sump and 1 quart make up oil).
http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14406&page=2&pp=20
they have a Porsche and it has been recommended by their service writer in the tone of “you’re car will turn into a pumpkin if you don’t”
The car may not turn into a pumpkin, but the owner may be in a pickle.
From what I have seen and heard, most boxster and 911 engine failures result from intermediate shaft failures (wide range of years suffer from this poor single bearing design, some years have two bearings), slipped cylinder sleeves (older models), cracked blocks or heads. A few spun bearing stories out there also. The vast majority of engine failures are not a direct result of lack of lubrication, as others have said in other posts.
So my point for Porsches at least is it is important to use M1 or other oil on the list if still under warranty so that cannot be used as an excuse for someone to deny a claim, even though the oil would probably have nothing to do with the failure.
In terms of the service writer, it is amazing how their knowledge (or lack of) varies from one individual to another. Also some feel they need to spout the company line at first and will tell you something different if you really ask them about it or if they know you well. If you are out of warranty, you are free to try other oils. Personally I think the statement about "only one that works in a Porsche" is [censored] and I am open to the possibility there may be better oils out there and am actively looking/testing.
There are 3 M1 0W40 UOAs (5 runs total) from boxsters on this page fyi: mine showed what could be considered slightly elevated fe numbers and 30wt with tbn of 5.2 at 8700 miles (9 quart sump and 1 quart make up oil).
http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14406&page=2&pp=20
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Well, this looks like an all-Porsche thread, but I've used M1 0W-40 in my 328 Ferrari for several years. Only one UOA, and it showed great numbers except for shearing down to 11.3 cSt. The oil sump holds 11 quarts, and I only run 1000 to 1500 miles per year, so that was a surprise. Guess I don't run it long enough for the viscosity to come back up, as I've read it does.
I'll probably try something else next change. I'm looking for QS Q HP in 5W-40, supposedly now used by Ferrari dealers, but can't find it on my island yet. Or I may just put in Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic in 5w30 or 10W-30. It looks pretty sturdy, and clearly my car can run on a 30-weight (the sheared-down M1 0W-40) with no problem.
I'll probably try something else next change. I'm looking for QS Q HP in 5W-40, supposedly now used by Ferrari dealers, but can't find it on my island yet. Or I may just put in Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic in 5w30 or 10W-30. It looks pretty sturdy, and clearly my car can run on a 30-weight (the sheared-down M1 0W-40) with no problem.
Havoline 5w-40 is Porsche Approved, so it green GC.
Hi,
BarkerMan - I'll try to give you more sensible answer about this product - and Porsche
You do not mention the Porsche model referred to and this is a very important ommission. All engine families from MY84 can use the Approved and Listed lubricants with confidence - M1 0w-40 is but one
Firstly, prior to MY84, it is a much better choice to use a modern HDEO 15w-40 lubricant in all air cooled engines subject to ambient temps of course. In very cold conditions then the likes of Rotella T 5w-40 or Delvac 1 5w-40 are excellent choices in a suitable engine
Secondly, saaber1's comments are sensible and correct
Finally, any one of the 100 or so Porsche Approved lubricants will do their intended task very well. M1 0w-40 is very good at it!
Sometimes people are put off M1 products by non existent "issues" - such as noise. Many Euro cars are noisy at startup and all of my present cars are too. For instance most Porsche M96 engines are noisy at startup and my Boxster (M96) is noisy too even with Delvac 1 5w-40 in it - and at cold (Tropical) startup temps of around 27C.
I have used M1 0w-40 in a number of vehicles and it really seemed very noisy at cold start in only one vehicle I owned - a 2.8 Z3 BMW (and at around 25C)
These noises do annoy some people but do not translate into wear or any other issues - it is simply a product of the technology/metallurgy/base fluid mix
Porsche has not Approved a SAE30 lubricant since 1999. It has a lot to do with the extended 100C and 150C viscosity test protocols used by Porsche and their (earlier defined) minimum operational viscosity of around 11.9cSt. Their minimum HTHS vis. of 3.5cSt is not able to be maintained by such lubricants (generally)
You said:
"So if a 30w will do the job then you can use M1 0w-40 with confidence?"
I think you meant to say SAE30 not 30w
And yes this is so - the criticism by some that M1 0w-40 loses viscosity and etc. is simply that - criticism - in an operational sense! Do you really think that Porsche, Benz and the like don't know the absolute performance characteristics of this product? They know all about how it performs in their engines - believe me. I have been involved at these engineering levels and I can assure you that the joint engineering teams these Companies have with ExxonMobil would blow your soxs off.
The same can be said with the CAT and MTU-Detroit Diesel and etc and their ExxonMobil linkages too
It'she same with VW and BMW with Castrol too!
So in the correct application M1 0w-40 is an excellent product with a total package unequalled in the field
However, if the Porsche you referred to is aircooled and built prior to MY84 refer to the comments I made earlier!
Sadly the training of service writers and mechanics does not cover much about lubricants - sometimes the simple motivation is profit!
Audi Junkie - If the GC you are referring to is 0w-30 (or any SAE30 version) I can assure you it is NOT Approved, except for use in the Cayenne V6 (VW engine)
Regards
BarkerMan - I'll try to give you more sensible answer about this product - and Porsche
You do not mention the Porsche model referred to and this is a very important ommission. All engine families from MY84 can use the Approved and Listed lubricants with confidence - M1 0w-40 is but one
Firstly, prior to MY84, it is a much better choice to use a modern HDEO 15w-40 lubricant in all air cooled engines subject to ambient temps of course. In very cold conditions then the likes of Rotella T 5w-40 or Delvac 1 5w-40 are excellent choices in a suitable engine
Secondly, saaber1's comments are sensible and correct
Finally, any one of the 100 or so Porsche Approved lubricants will do their intended task very well. M1 0w-40 is very good at it!
Sometimes people are put off M1 products by non existent "issues" - such as noise. Many Euro cars are noisy at startup and all of my present cars are too. For instance most Porsche M96 engines are noisy at startup and my Boxster (M96) is noisy too even with Delvac 1 5w-40 in it - and at cold (Tropical) startup temps of around 27C.
I have used M1 0w-40 in a number of vehicles and it really seemed very noisy at cold start in only one vehicle I owned - a 2.8 Z3 BMW (and at around 25C)
These noises do annoy some people but do not translate into wear or any other issues - it is simply a product of the technology/metallurgy/base fluid mix
Porsche has not Approved a SAE30 lubricant since 1999. It has a lot to do with the extended 100C and 150C viscosity test protocols used by Porsche and their (earlier defined) minimum operational viscosity of around 11.9cSt. Their minimum HTHS vis. of 3.5cSt is not able to be maintained by such lubricants (generally)
You said:
"So if a 30w will do the job then you can use M1 0w-40 with confidence?"
I think you meant to say SAE30 not 30w
And yes this is so - the criticism by some that M1 0w-40 loses viscosity and etc. is simply that - criticism - in an operational sense! Do you really think that Porsche, Benz and the like don't know the absolute performance characteristics of this product? They know all about how it performs in their engines - believe me. I have been involved at these engineering levels and I can assure you that the joint engineering teams these Companies have with ExxonMobil would blow your soxs off.
The same can be said with the CAT and MTU-Detroit Diesel and etc and their ExxonMobil linkages too
It'she same with VW and BMW with Castrol too!
So in the correct application M1 0w-40 is an excellent product with a total package unequalled in the field
However, if the Porsche you referred to is aircooled and built prior to MY84 refer to the comments I made earlier!
Sadly the training of service writers and mechanics does not cover much about lubricants - sometimes the simple motivation is profit!
Audi Junkie - If the GC you are referring to is 0w-30 (or any SAE30 version) I can assure you it is NOT Approved, except for use in the Cayenne V6 (VW engine)
Regards
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Since M1 0W-40 has VW502.00 and GM LL025A approval I use it in my '96 Audi S6 2.2 TQ (4.5 liter sump) and my '05 Opel Astra 1.8 (3.5 liter sump).
Audi is driven like it should (redline every day). Opel is just slow so that one is never at redline. OCI's < 10000 km on the Audi and max 30000 km on the Opel (OLM has said 18000 km is enough with my driving style/route).
No extra noise or other issues...
Audi is driven like it should (redline every day). Opel is just slow so that one is never at redline. OCI's < 10000 km on the Audi and max 30000 km on the Opel (OLM has said 18000 km is enough with my driving style/route).
No extra noise or other issues...
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Hi,
bar1 - Vor er dig in Norge?
Regards
Doug
bar1 - Vor er dig in Norge?
Regards
Doug
Quote:
The vast majority of engine failures are not a direct result of lack of lubrication, as others have said in other posts.
Think of all the Porsche, Mercedes, and other high end cars M1 is in and then look at engine failures. Very few if any have lubrication issues. M1 is also 60% of the synthetic market. If something was wrong with M1, we would know about it.
I think Doug's experience says a lot more than Joe Schmoe's UOA IMO. There are several oils that meet the Porsche approval and I'm sure most would be good products.
Climate might also have to do with why it's a 0w40 and not a rock solid 10w40. This car will be bought and sold in very cold climates. It's possible all of these things were taken into account.
I don't think it's fair to compare M1 0w40 to a 15w-40 HDEO or even a 5w-40 D1. If Porsche wanted an oil that had a higher HT/HS of say over 4.2 cSt wouldn't they have called for it? Even though M1 0w40 shears, it's HT/HS won't drop below 3.5 unless the viscosity drops below 11.3 cSt. When you add in the long drain capability, it ends up where it started. Point is, I think this oil is designed this way to meet the current specs called for.
The vast majority of engine failures are not a direct result of lack of lubrication, as others have said in other posts.
Think of all the Porsche, Mercedes, and other high end cars M1 is in and then look at engine failures. Very few if any have lubrication issues. M1 is also 60% of the synthetic market. If something was wrong with M1, we would know about it.
I think Doug's experience says a lot more than Joe Schmoe's UOA IMO. There are several oils that meet the Porsche approval and I'm sure most would be good products.
Climate might also have to do with why it's a 0w40 and not a rock solid 10w40. This car will be bought and sold in very cold climates. It's possible all of these things were taken into account.
I don't think it's fair to compare M1 0w40 to a 15w-40 HDEO or even a 5w-40 D1. If Porsche wanted an oil that had a higher HT/HS of say over 4.2 cSt wouldn't they have called for it? Even though M1 0w40 shears, it's HT/HS won't drop below 3.5 unless the viscosity drops below 11.3 cSt. When you add in the long drain capability, it ends up where it started. Point is, I think this oil is designed this way to meet the current specs called for.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
...Audi Junkie - If the GC you are referring to is 0w-30 (or any SAE30 version) I can assure you it is NOT Approved, except for use in the Cayenne V6 (VW engine)...
According to the container, GC was Porsche approved as recently as the API SL version of GC. Take a look at the picture in this link:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/wavinwayne/Motor Oil/0w30_back.jpg
...Audi Junkie - If the GC you are referring to is 0w-30 (or any SAE30 version) I can assure you it is NOT Approved, except for use in the Cayenne V6 (VW engine)...
According to the container, GC was Porsche approved as recently as the API SL version of GC. Take a look at the picture in this link:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/wavinwayne/Motor Oil/0w30_back.jpg
Well, if M1 0w-40 starts at 3.5cP @+150c while it's +100C visc is 14+cSt, what happens to the +150C visc when the +100C visc drops into the 11cSt range? That's what, a 25% drop in visc? That could almost knock a whole milli-pascal or whatever off the HT/HS. Compare that to GC, at 3.5 cP and 12cSt, but it does not shear.
Not the oil I'd look for in a modded car if temps >+100c, but StasiS Racing uses it in their A4 Touring Car, likely temps are in-check. Who knows? I think it's a great oil for a new stock warranty extended drain engine or a modded one that specs 30 weight, but just not trusting it as the best of the best in every app.
Not the oil I'd look for in a modded car if temps >+100c, but StasiS Racing uses it in their A4 Touring Car, likely temps are in-check. Who knows? I think it's a great oil for a new stock warranty extended drain engine or a modded one that specs 30 weight, but just not trusting it as the best of the best in every app.
Hi,
wavinwayne - Porsche Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) dating from well over some decades and many WSMs dating from 1978 are here and I can assure you that no SAE30 lubricant has been APPROVED and officially LISTED since the MY99 TSB 1701/1. The current TSB on lubricants expires this year. The latest has a two year life span. This is an agreement with Porsche and the Oil Companies who may withdraw oils but not add them to the List during this cycle
As I said earlier the Cayenne V6 has a special TSB. As this engine is produced by VW for Porsche the oil specification was based on VW503. This includes a number of SAE30 lubricants. However, if VW503 lubricants are not available lubricants from the latest Porsche Approved List (TSB 1701) can be used - in viscosity these are around 20% 0w-40, 80% 5w-40 and M1 5w-50
What is written on the oil container is a matter between the Oil Company selling the lubricant and the purchaser. This is the same Marketinging strategy as the "meets", "recommended for use in...." and etc used by some Oil Blenders. Such words are just that - if it is NOT officially Approved it is NOT LISTED!
No SAE30 lubricant is on the current Porsche Approved List except as noted above - nor has been since TSB 1701/1 MY99
I for one will never recommend using a SAE30 lubricant in a current Porsche produced engine!
Note: As Porsche moves to direct injection (DI) engines this year the OCI will be reduced to 12k miles (20kkms) or one year. This maybe made retrospective for Service management purposes and I believe this may be the case already
At the same time and with the introduction of a new lubricant TSB about mid year, a move to other viscosities may occur. If this is done it is most unlikely to be made retrospective
Audi Junkie - As some people already know on here I was an early user of the original GC 0w-30 lubricant - in 1995-6. It was an unhappy experience for me and others and that product was withdrawn from sale in the early 2000s after a number of formulation changes.
Castrol make excellent lubricants and their latest products are great in their intended application
I worked with Castrol over many years in the develpment of a number of synthetic an semi-synthetic lubricanst including their wonderful 10w-60!
Regards
Doug
wavinwayne - Porsche Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) dating from well over some decades and many WSMs dating from 1978 are here and I can assure you that no SAE30 lubricant has been APPROVED and officially LISTED since the MY99 TSB 1701/1. The current TSB on lubricants expires this year. The latest has a two year life span. This is an agreement with Porsche and the Oil Companies who may withdraw oils but not add them to the List during this cycle
As I said earlier the Cayenne V6 has a special TSB. As this engine is produced by VW for Porsche the oil specification was based on VW503. This includes a number of SAE30 lubricants. However, if VW503 lubricants are not available lubricants from the latest Porsche Approved List (TSB 1701) can be used - in viscosity these are around 20% 0w-40, 80% 5w-40 and M1 5w-50
What is written on the oil container is a matter between the Oil Company selling the lubricant and the purchaser. This is the same Marketinging strategy as the "meets", "recommended for use in...." and etc used by some Oil Blenders. Such words are just that - if it is NOT officially Approved it is NOT LISTED!
No SAE30 lubricant is on the current Porsche Approved List except as noted above - nor has been since TSB 1701/1 MY99
I for one will never recommend using a SAE30 lubricant in a current Porsche produced engine!
Note: As Porsche moves to direct injection (DI) engines this year the OCI will be reduced to 12k miles (20kkms) or one year. This maybe made retrospective for Service management purposes and I believe this may be the case already
At the same time and with the introduction of a new lubricant TSB about mid year, a move to other viscosities may occur. If this is done it is most unlikely to be made retrospective
Audi Junkie - As some people already know on here I was an early user of the original GC 0w-30 lubricant - in 1995-6. It was an unhappy experience for me and others and that product was withdrawn from sale in the early 2000s after a number of formulation changes.
Castrol make excellent lubricants and their latest products are great in their intended application
I worked with Castrol over many years in the develpment of a number of synthetic an semi-synthetic lubricanst including their wonderful 10w-60!
Regards
Doug
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Doug Hillary,
Why do you think Castrol would print "Porsche approved" on the GC container? I would understand if it said "Recommended for....", etc., but it says "approved".
Makes me wonder....
Why do you think Castrol would print "Porsche approved" on the GC container? I would understand if it said "Recommended for....", etc., but it says "approved".
Makes me wonder....
Hi,
yes I truely wonder too! Many strange things have happened at Castrol since the BP takeover but that's another story!!
It was once approved - the original GC SLX 0w-30 I referred to earlier was Approved in 1995! It remained on the Approved List for many years either until it was withdrawn from sale or until Porsche stopped Approving SAE30 lubricants - whichever was sooner
It is silly though to use "marginal" lubricants in engines with specific needs (determined by the Engineers who designed and build the engines) and if people "don't like M1" they can use any one of the other 100 or so Listed products such Havoline, Valvoline, Shell and etc
Mobil's Lube Engineers and their Add. pack suppliers have often told me over several years that I should use M1 0w-40 in the petrol engine applications where I use Del 1. They assure me that it is at least its equal and in some applications it may be a better product! That is why it is in my Benz engine!!
Wayne - a D1 container will be on its way soon - remember?
Regards
Doug
yes I truely wonder too! Many strange things have happened at Castrol since the BP takeover but that's another story!!
It was once approved - the original GC SLX 0w-30 I referred to earlier was Approved in 1995! It remained on the Approved List for many years either until it was withdrawn from sale or until Porsche stopped Approving SAE30 lubricants - whichever was sooner
It is silly though to use "marginal" lubricants in engines with specific needs (determined by the Engineers who designed and build the engines) and if people "don't like M1" they can use any one of the other 100 or so Listed products such Havoline, Valvoline, Shell and etc
Mobil's Lube Engineers and their Add. pack suppliers have often told me over several years that I should use M1 0w-40 in the petrol engine applications where I use Del 1. They assure me that it is at least its equal and in some applications it may be a better product! That is why it is in my Benz engine!!
Wayne - a D1 container will be on its way soon - remember?
Regards
Doug
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Hi,
moribundman - Thanks, if only I could use the PC technology correctly! You can clearly see the Appoval date cut off points too
Regards
Doug
moribundman - Thanks, if only I could use the PC technology correctly! You can clearly see the Appoval date cut off points too
Regards
Doug
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