Minimizing longer term maintenance costs

[TrevorS]

It seems to me that almost all vehicle brands will have long term reliable engines, transmissions, braking, cooling and power steering systems if one simply maintains them with the right fluids at the right times.

But certain other systems are more subject to deteriorating through wear and tear that is just part of everyday driving.

In particular, it seems to me that suspension parts longevity varies between manufacturers. The impression I have gotten is that Japanese manufacturers reputation for quality seems to translate into very long lasting suspensions whereas German and domestic manufacturers longer term cost of ownership is higher partly because of suspension parts replacement.

What does everyone else think?

 

[Rolla07]

I agree but it also depends where you live. In Montreal, where the roads are like a 3rd world country, people replace ball joints, tires, rims, tie rods and wheel bearings quite often. Likely the biggest maintenance item is suspensiob..but its the thing that connects u to the road so its also logical.

 

[fdcg27]

We've had great suspension part lives from the Hondas we've had.
These are also usually pretty cheap and easy items to replace.
I had to put new tie rod ends on our '97 Aerostar around 150K. No biggie.
The German cars we've had (four Benzes, two BMWs and a VW) seemed to hold up very well to years and miles.
The Vanagon did eat a rear wheel bearing on a long trip out of state, but it got it us where we were going and I had it fixed there at moderate cost.
I don't think that suspension wear items are a big factor in the running costs of any car.

 

[JHZR2]

Between manufacturers? How about salt/dust/road quality?

How's the Bay Area vs Utah?

 

[mclasser]

I agree. It seems like ball joints, tie rod ends, struts/shocks, CV joints and wheel bearings wear out faster on domestics. Japanese quality is now slipping but it's not uncommon to see Civics or Maximas from import glory days with 200K miles on the original steering/suspension system. My sig. Accord has 175K miles and the factory lower ball joints have just now started developing some play. The rest of the suspension is still original including wheel bearings. But I agree with Rolla07 saying location plays a big role, too. My I35's original owner was from upstate NY so all the salt probably contributed to the struts wearing out before 75K miles.

 

[aualtima3.5]

I think it's hit or miss. I've had two Nissan products that were a bit "needy" suspension wise: 02 Altima (front struts) and g35 (many bushings up front). My friends e46 m3 needed a ball joint at 120k. Sometimes people don't even know something is bad. The world is a small percentage of BITOGers.

I definitely think street conditions are part of it.

One of my favorite things is to replace a bad suspension part and enjoying the tightness.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Between manufacturers? How about salt/dust/road quality?

How's the Bay Area vs Utah?


All great questions. I'm mainly talking between manufacturers excluding the effect of salt, but given the same road quality. I don't suffer from salt corrosion.

CA roads are terrible, well at least in Southern California, I'm not too familiar with Bay Area roads. I presume you mean the SF Bay Area and not Tampa.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
CA roads are terrible, well at least in Southern California, I'm not too familiar with Bay Area roads. I presume you mean the SF Bay Area and not Tampa.

The surface roads in LA area are not so good, but they are fairly good in Orange County especially southern half of OC. South Orange County cities have more tax money and they keep the road condition in very good shape.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Between manufacturers? How about salt/dust/road quality?

How's the Bay Area vs Utah?


All great questions. I'm mainly talking between manufacturers excluding the effect of salt, but given the same road quality. I don't suffer from salt corrosion.

CA roads are terrible, well at least in Southern California, I'm not too familiar with Bay Area roads. I presume you mean the SF Bay Area and not Tampa.


What I was getting at is someplace without seasons vs someplace where lots of salt and sand are used for many months.

 

[TrevorS]

Well salt, sand, bad roads are a given for all manufacturers.

Manufacturers test their vehicles in Alaska and Arizona to look at cold and hot performance.

They know the factors that affect suspension longevity. So I am simply wondering what observations people have on how suspensions from different manufacturers survive under the same conditions. Personally speaking, salt is not a factor so I am therefore most interested in the effect of non salt wear and tear on longevity between manufacturers.

I know most people are impacted by salt. I'm not so never give it a second thought when asking questions.

 

[MCompact]

My Mazdaspeed had a LF strut fail at 26k, and the rear shocks were toast by 70k. At 130k I ashcanned the factory damping and went with Koni FSDs, replacing the strut bearings and mounts while I was in there. It still needs the front anti-roll bar bushings replaced(a bit of a pain).

After 130k all my 3er track rat has needed is a set of lower control arm bushings.

My son's X3 has 159k on it and I haven't touched the suspension.

At @60k the Wrangler blew the front anti-roll bar links; I went ahead and fitted Bilstein HDs and a NAPA steering stabilizer at the same time. 51k later there have been no other issues.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Well salt, sand, bad roads are a given for all manufacturers.

Manufacturers test their vehicles in Alaska and Arizona to look at cold and hot performance.

They know the factors that affect suspension longevity. So I am simply wondering what observations people have on how suspensions from different manufacturers survive under the same conditions. Personally speaking, salt is not a factor so I am therefore most interested in the effect of non salt wear and tear on longevity between manufacturers.

I know most people are impacted by salt. I'm not so never give it a second thought when asking questions.


There is an obvious difference in quality of materials, paints, passivating coatings, and other surface treatments which can have a real effect on this stuff. Same for materials selections for boots, seals, etc. on top of that designs of certain components can have issues. Strut bushings for my saab come to mind in terms of means of ingress of dirt into the strut bearings. Nothing is standardized and thus corners can be cut or designs that would benefit one thing may be a compromise for something else.

I've been pleased with my MB and bmw suspension designs and longevity, but moreso with bmw.

 

[rjundi]

In 200k of usage I have never changed any suspension out on my Honda and Subaru(4 overall). It was well worn and some creaks by the end(my ownership) but not unsafe.

My friends with German, and domestic and other Asian seem to get much less life out from theirs. VW seemsed to be the worst especially Passat. BMW seems like if you don't keep up with it the special drive/handling you pay for is no better than any other plebian car. My friends who like driving/notice keep up with the bits in the upper mileage with 1995-2005 models at decent expense.

I live in a salty area with mixed winter conditions near coast.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
In 200k of usage I have never changed any suspension out on my Honda and Subaru(4 overall). It was well worn and some creaks by the end(my ownership) but not unsafe.

My friends with German, and domestic and other Asian seem to get much less life out from theirs. VW seemsed to be the worst especially Passat. BMW seems like if you don't keep up with it the special drive/handling you pay for is no better than any other plebian car. My friends who like driving/notice keep up with the bits in the upper mileage with 1995-2005 models at decent expense.

I live in a salty area with mixed winter conditions near coast.


The rubber components in my 20-30 year old MB and BMW cars lasted fat better than our integra.

I've not had to do much of anything on my 91 BMW, though a rear subframe bushing is probably in order. Is 23 years and 165k miles OK?

You talk about BMW in such a way, but are using experience from plebeian cars, on make of which I had the exact opposite experience.

 

[supton]

You say long lasting, but what is "long"? My wife drove a Civic for 10 years, and its biggest headache was a/c, although it needed an exhaust system (complete, manifold included) and front wheel bearings--but the struts were fine. 10 years, 173k, and we didn't drive it too much. Traded as we wanted a bigger car and ABS and airbags.

My current car has taken a lot more miles in its 10 years of ownership, couple months shy of 10 years and it is almost at 290k. It has needed a set of wheel bearings, and two sets of struts, and now it needs the rear axle unbent (or otherwise compensated). Neither car needed so much as an alignment, save for after strut work (or in my case, after the clutch job when the flywheel failed).

I'm not sure if I want to buy cars for less than a 10 year span, but I'm not sure if that is "long" by your standards or not. Suspension work is annoying, but lower on the list of hates IMO for longterm ownership.

Going by antedotal numbers, Japanese vehicles go for 200k (at least uninspired Toyota/Honda, where you couldn't tell if a strut was bad or not). Then everything is worn out, but it probably doesn't matter, as "it's done good enough", and it's probably a shock to the wallet to rebuild to factory goodness. German vehicles need various bits replaced well before then, but they suffer less rust; if you avoid the lemons they seem capable of racking up many miles too.

 

[Cujet]

To minimize the cost of expensive rubber and plastic replacement, avoid European cars. They are engineered to be recyclable and therefore don't hold up over long periods of time.

Little things like completely missing suspension bushings, wheel wells crumbling, air conditioning foam "reverting" and blowing out as grease on the boss and hose/seal deterioration.

The bad part about this are the continuing rapid deterioration problems with plastics and rubbers on our fleet of Euro vehicles based here in South Florida. It's gotten so bad, we've switched to other brands for more pedestrian applications. (Ford and so on)

 

[jimbrewer]

Well, I think that what we consider to be chronic suspension problems is really supplier quality problems. The manufacturer gets tough with a supplier about costs and it shows in the quality of the delivered part. GM used to be notorious for getting low bids for parts and then demanding a 10% price concession from its suppliers. The only way to do that would be to throw quality control out the window. That's how we got the Chevy Citation.

 

[sciphi]

Buy an inexpensive car new on a short-term loan, rustproof it as soon as it leaves the lot, keep up on the routine maintenance and detailing, and drive it for 10+ years.