Michelin Tweel

[durallymax]

I picked up our set of Tweel's today for our Cat 262C2 Skid Steer.

We have had too many headaches with pneumatic tires due to punctures. Whether its a simple or large one, it happens too often. The turning point on this machine was when one of the workers stabbed the bale spears through the front two tires which still had over 75% tread.

We knew solid/solid flex type tires were not the answer either due to their rough ride and poor impact resistance. We have too many instances where they ram into a stub wall or curb.

I stumbled across the Tweel and thought it would maybe be the perfect fit. i had many doubts, but it seems to be proving me wrong.

I just got them on today so short of just playing with them I don't have much feedback. The one thing I really was curious on was their supposed resistance to "hopping/dancing" when turning with the skid steer. They really do eliminate this, all the way up from 0-12mph turning on a complete dime it didn't hop or skid nor did it do it on fast cornering either. The ride is interesting to describe. You can tell you are not riding on pnuematics as it is a slightly firmer ride, but nowhere near a solid tire ride. The large open spaced tread blocks may contribute to some of the ride qualities. The more you load the Tweel's up, the better they seem to ride though. So far traction seems excellent even on ice. Hopefully these do end up working out. They are a big upfront investement but are retreadable.

Heres a picture of ours followed by a video from Michelin.

 

[mrsilv04]

Sweet!!!!

 

[user52165]

Care to share the price?

And what is the ratio to OEM price and expected life?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

I'd love to know what these cost you, also.

 

[daves87rs]

Wow!

 

[durallymax]

 

[durallymax]

Originally Posted By: user52165
Care to share the price?

And what is the ratio to OEM price and expected life?


They do not have a price set in stone yet. It sounds like they will be just over 1k each though once everything gets up and running.

What OEM?

Decent Bias Ply tires of this size will run you $200-400. Michelin's Radial Skid Steer tires of this size will run you just under $500. A set of solid or solidflex type tires will run you $600-800 each.

Its important to remember that the Tweel can be retreaded for less than a new Bias tire.

The Tweel's life is expected to be slightly better than their radial tire which is at least double the life of many Bias tires.

The thing with SSL tires is that you cannot accurately say how long they will last as every situation is different. in ours we see 600-1000hrs on virgin Bias ply tires.



The big cost saver is labor, downtime and repairs. Flat tires are a daily issue with as many Skid Steers as we have running around. punctures, bent rims, broken valvestems, you name it. It's a nuisance and is costly.

Solid tires get rid of the above issues but cause more of their own issues. The rough stiff ride is uncomfortable for the operator and is very hard on the machine. The rough ride increases spilled materials as well which decreases profits. Possibly their biggest flaw though is their impact resistance. They have none, they transmit the impact right to the machine. This has caused many broken hubs for many people who are running these tires. It doesn't take much more than one for the costs to add up. The traction seems to be poorer with them somewhat.

 

[Shannow]

That sounds like a perfect investment in reliability and down time.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Really cool. First time I've seen a set in action. Please let us know how they perform over the long term.

 

[Colt45ws]

I didnt think they were going to make these without a sidewall. My impression was the no sidewall was some sort of display purpose. Ah well.

Where I work, we fill the pneumatic tires with foam.

 

[Quattro Pete]

So what happens when rocks and dirt get stuck in there?

 

[durallymax]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I didnt think they were going to make these without a sidewall. My impression was the no sidewall was some sort of display purpose. Ah well.

Where I work, we fill the pneumatic tires with foam.


A sidewall would just accumulate debris.

Foam filled tires are just as bad as solid tires when it comes to ride quality and impact resistance.

When I worked in tires we filled a lot of tires, rarely for farmers though mostly for those on construction sites.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So what happens when rocks and dirt get stuck in there?


They come right back out. Since they are constantly flexing they self cleanse themselves. They prevent a lot from getting in there to begin with and anything that does get in there gets squished out. There will be rare instances I am sure where a branch or piece of rebar will slide through it though. The spokes are very soft and flexible.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: durallymax
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I didnt think they were going to make these without a sidewall. My impression was the no sidewall was some sort of display purpose. Ah well.

Where I work, we fill the pneumatic tires with foam.


A sidewall would just accumulate debris.

Foam filled tires are just as bad as solid tires when it comes to ride quality and impact resistance.

When I worked in tires we filled a lot of tires, rarely for farmers though mostly for those on construction sites.


Seems like if you could seal it up, it would be a better option than running it open and allowing stuff to get inside and possibly damaging the structure. But, if Michelin ships it that way then it must be okay. Im sure they tested the HE double hockey sticks out of these. I was sort of commenting out loud. When I first read about these being developed, I had read a report that they were only open sided for testing purposes.

I didnt know foam filled was that bad. Seems like they have a decent amount of squish to them. Then again, I dont drive the machines, I just help put them together.

 

[durallymax]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: durallymax
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I didnt think they were going to make these without a sidewall. My impression was the no sidewall was some sort of display purpose. Ah well.

Where I work, we fill the pneumatic tires with foam.


A sidewall would just accumulate debris.

Foam filled tires are just as bad as solid tires when it comes to ride quality and impact resistance.

When I worked in tires we filled a lot of tires, rarely for farmers though mostly for those on construction sites.


Seems like if you could seal it up, it would be a better option than running it open and allowing stuff to get inside and possibly damaging the structure. But, if Michelin ships it that way then it must be okay. Im sure they tested the HE double hockey sticks out of these. I was sort of commenting out loud. When I first read about these being developed, I had read a report that they were only open sided for testing purposes.

I didnt know foam filled was that bad. Seems like they have a decent amount of squish to them. Then again, I dont drive the machines, I just help put them together.
]

Solidflex tires looks like they squish too, in the real world they are rough.

Even the Tweels ultra squishy look in the videos is a bit more abrubt in the real world but still better than the others.

The issue with the sidewall is that it would have to be very strong and it would need somewhere to go when the wheel would flex. This would mean it could have to bulge out which makes it vulnerable to abrasion and injuries. Once injured, debris would buildup inside with no escape and cause far more issues that way.

That is my thought on the sidewall. I could be wrong.

 

[Shannow]

Plus rebar through the sidewall would allow the compartment to fill with rocks and stuff.

A flexing tread, as you said will self clean.

 

[Rand]

one of the reasons why this is a low speed application

and the high speed uses are "still in testing"

 

[durallymax]

Originally Posted By: Rand
one of the reasons why this is a low speed application

and the high speed uses are "still in testing"


Noise is a big issues with high speed

 

[FCobra94]

Very cool! I had no idea theses were available for sale now.

Thanks for sharing your experience with these tires, as well as the others you've used in the past

 

[durallymax]

Got some snow today. Great traction in the snow although it wasn't the most slippery snow in the world. They kept themselves cleaned out very well though.

 

[durallymax]

Got in a set of Michelin's Bibsteel All Terrain's this week. Weren't ready to buy another set of Tweel's yet and wanted to see how these performed. Being steel belted radials they are more resistant to punctures to begin with. Most all other SSL tires are Bias ply. These were a little more than the Firestone Duraforce DT's but were half as much as the Tweels. We never got very good life out of the Firestones. Maybe 600hrs. The Michelins start with a little more tread and the Radial construction should help them run at least twice as long. With wheel loader tires I was always told 3-4 times the life with Radials over Bias and that was what the prices reflected as well. Tractor tires seem to wear at least two to three times as long in addition to other benefits.

If these last as long as I am hoping they should have decent tread for trade in time. These will be going on our 242B3 that runs in the barn, pushes up feed, scrapes manure, beds freestalls, jumps center alley curbs, moves bales, etc. I did disable the 2 speed on this machine however which should help some with the tire life. Our 242B3 for feeding will need tires next winter. By then we should know if we want another set of the Tweels or not I am thinking. Then we would just take the tires from the new machines and put them on the trade-in's and keep that rotation going. I do not know if we will want three sets of the Tweels though due to the fact we may trade down a size on the barn machine to a 226 which runs 10" tires and they do not make the Tweels in that size yet.

I also attached a picture of the Tweels after 150hrs worth of use. I made sure to not wash them in that amount of time. In the deep snow and mud they keep themselves cleaned out well and do not allow much buildup at all. I forgot to put a gauge to them when new, however Michelin claims 30/32" original tread depth. At this time they measure 29/32". If they continue this trend in theory we should easily see over 3,000hrs worth of life in the original tread. We typically run SSL tires down until the center is smooth. With the Tweels being flat across though it will allow slightly longer wear. I would not expect the retread material to last as long, however I do not know if Michelin will be supplied a pre-mold or custom mold tread or if they will be having people use an off the shelf retread material.

Michelin Bibsteel All Terrain 305/70R16.5

Tweels after 150hrs. Rear squats due to how heavy the 262C2 is in the rear with no attachment.