MC FL 910 (pics)

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: tig1
But in the end, it really doesn't matter so much about what filter you use, it's far more important as to what oil you use.

Not sure what the "what matters most" percentage breakdown would be - maybe there's an SAE paper study somewhere to quantify it. The SAE "Bus Study" did concluded more efficient oil filters result in less engine wear. No surprise.

I'd say running the very best oil in the world with no oil filter for 10K miles would be worse for the engine than running it along with a high efficiency oil filter. Even a less efficient filter would be better than no oil filter.

No matter how it's sliced or diced, less debris in the oil means less engine wear, even if you use the best oil in the world.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
But in the end, it really doesn't matter so much about what filter you use, it's far more important as to what oil you use.

Not sure what the "what matters most" percentage breakdown would be - maybe there's an SAE paper study somewhere to quantify it. The SAE "Bus Study" did concluded more efficient oil filters result in less engine wear. No surprise.

I'd say running the very best oil in the world with no oil filter for 10K miles would be worse for the engine than running it along with a high efficiency oil filter. Even a less efficient filter would be better than no oil filter.

No matter how it's sliced or diced, less debris in the oil means less engine wear, even if you use the best oil in the world.


Your example is not relevant. Re-read my post. I said "it really doesn't matter so much what filter you use". Implying a filter would be used. I didn't say if you don't use a filter. In my case I use MC filters(have for several years now) and have put hundreds of thousands of miles on some engines and have not had an engine show noticeable engine wear in the last 40 years. Back then I used different filters that didn't have the efficiency of some of the modern filters that have come out in the last 10 or so years.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
But in the end, it really doesn't matter so much about what filter you use, it's far more important as to what oil you use.

Not sure what the "what matters most" percentage breakdown would be - maybe there's an SAE paper study somewhere to quantify it. The SAE "Bus Study" did concluded more efficient oil filters result in less engine wear. No surprise.

I'd say running the very best oil in the world with no oil filter for 10K miles would be worse for the engine than running it along with a high efficiency oil filter. Even a less efficient filter would be better than no oil filter.

No matter how it's sliced or diced, less debris in the oil means less engine wear, even if you use the best oil in the world.

Your example is not relevant. Re-read my post. I said "it really doesn't matter so much what filter you use". Implying a filter would be used. I didn't say if you don't use a filter. In my case I use MC filters(have for several years now) and have put hundreds of thousands of miles on some engines and have not had an engine show noticeable engine wear in the last 40 years. Back then I used different filters that didn't have the efficiency of some of the modern filters that have come out in the last 10 or so years.


The "no filter" was the extreme example. I did say the SAE "Bus Study" did prove that more efficient oil filters did reduce engine wear - controlled laboratory and field experiment measured data proved it.

So it does matter what filter is used ... IMO. Many test have been done to show that less crud in the oil due to better filtration means less engine wear, not rocket science.

You realize that an engine has to be really worn out to show any noticeable signs of engine wear. I've seen engines still running pretty good, but you tear them down and look inside and do measurements, etc and wonder how the [censored] they could still be running that good.

 

[BKTX]

Have been using FL-910S in my Lincoln MKZ since 1st oil change. Best value for money than other filters. I always buy at local Walmart.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
But in the end, it really doesn't matter so much about what filter you use, it's far more important as to what oil you use.

I used a lot of Motorcrafts over the years, before and after I came across that figure. I never worried much about it anyhow, and simply considered it not much more than a general specification blurb, rather than something useful from a technical or marketing perspective. It's a bit amusing because they've been parroting that number for so many years for so many different filter numbers and revisions,.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I used a lot of Motorcrafts over the years, before and after I came across that figure. I never worried much about it anyhow, and simply considered it not much more than a general specification blurb, rather than something useful from a technical or marketing perspective. It's a bit amusing because they've been parroting that number for so many years for so many different filter numbers and revisions.

Motorcraft doesn't even show the 80% at 20 micron spec anymore on their wesite, it disappeared from everywhere years ago. Apparently, if you email them they'll tell you.

 

[Garak]

Yes, the last time I saw it on one of their sites was the Motorcraft parts site before it was revamped. That's at least two years ago, and I'm being conservative in my estimate.

 

[goodtimes]

Every day several thousand at least Motorcraft filters of all sizes are installed at Ford dealers. Not one is probably cut open. They don't have time at the shops for that. I wonder if Ford even knows about the fairly new Purolator media tearing issue? I had two Fords for many years, used the fl400 filter, thought it was the greatest for the buck. Probably is the greatest for the buck on the WM shelf.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
But in the end, it really doesn't matter so much about what filter you use, it's far more important as to what oil you use.

Not sure what the "what matters most" percentage breakdown would be - maybe there's an SAE paper study somewhere to quantify it. The SAE "Bus Study" did concluded more efficient oil filters result in less engine wear. No surprise.

I'd say running the very best oil in the world with no oil filter for 10K miles would be worse for the engine than running it along with a high efficiency oil filter. Even a less efficient filter would be better than no oil filter.

No matter how it's sliced or diced, less debris in the oil means less engine wear, even if you use the best oil in the world.

Your example is not relevant. Re-read my post. I said "it really doesn't matter so much what filter you use". Implying a filter would be used. I didn't say if you don't use a filter. In my case I use MC filters(have for several years now) and have put hundreds of thousands of miles on some engines and have not had an engine show noticeable engine wear in the last 40 years. Back then I used different filters that didn't have the efficiency of some of the modern filters that have come out in the last 10 or so years.


The "no filter" was the extreme example. I did say the SAE "Bus Study" did prove that more efficient oil filters did reduce engine wear - controlled laboratory and field experiment measured data proved it.

So it does matter what filter is used ... IMO. Many test have been done to show that less crud in the oil due to better filtration means less engine wear, not rocket science.

You realize that an engine has to be really worn out to show any noticeable signs of engine wear. I've seen engines still running pretty good, but you tear them down and look inside and do measurements, etc and wonder how the [censored] they could still be running that good.


My 55 years of history with automotive engines tell me other wise. All "really worn" engines I have seen showed signs of problems. Just sayin.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: tig1
My 55 years of history with automotive engines tell me other wise. All "really worn" engines I have seen showed signs of problems. Just sayin.

Yes, when engines are really worn out they start showing obvious signs.

My point is there can be a lot of engine wear that can't be detected by just driving the car around on the road until it's really worn out - then it's too late. Keeping any amount of wear down is a good thing IMO, even if you can't easily detect it. And yes, what oil you use is part of the equation. I treat them equally because IMO they are both importsnt.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Every day several thousand at least Motorcraft filters of all sizes are installed at Ford dealers. Not one is probably cut open. They don't have time at the shops for that. I wonder if Ford even knows about the fairly new Purolator media tearing issue? I had two Fords for many years, used the fl400 filter, thought it was the greatest for the buck. Probably is the greatest for the buck on the WM shelf.

Some of us have reported the problem to Motorcraft/Ford. Subsequently I received the dealer dodge. "Bring your truck in for diagnostics". So, they know about the issue.

If you consider their point of view: the filter line is made to a respectable price point for Ford owners, so if there is a 1% tear rate, then some owners might have a tear during the life of the vehicle. 1 filter change every 5,000 miles for 150,000 miles would translate to 30 filters. If no increase in wear is observed, then does Ford/Motorcraft really care? Obviously not.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
My 55 years of history with automotive engines tell me other wise. All "really worn" engines I have seen showed signs of problems. Just sayin.

Yes, when engines are really worn out they start showing obvious signs.

My point is there can be a lot of engine wear that can't be detected by just driving the car around on the road until it's really worn out - then it's too late. Keeping any amount of wear down is a good thing IMO, even if you can't easily detect it. And yes, what oil you use is part of the equation. I treat them equally because IMO they are both importsnt.


That's the reason I change the filter at every OCI. I try to drain as much old oil as possible.

 

[dlundblad]

Your MC filters always look perfect TIG.

 

[Whimsey]

If the oil filter is doing it's job filtering would that be reflected in the insolubles % on the Blackstone UOA? My last UOA at 7,000 miles with Mobil 1 5W-30 and the MC FL910S indicated insolubles % of 0.2, less than their .

Whimsey

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Whimsey
If the oil filter is doing it's job filtering would that be reflected in the insolubles % on the Blackstone UOA? My last UOA at 7,000 miles with Mobil 1 5W-30 and the MC FL910S indicated insolubles % of 0.2, less than their .

Whimsey


There is some UOA insolubles talk in this long thread - LINK

I think you're right about Motorcraft's "lawyer safe" spec on their filter's efficiency spec.