I wonder if this filter is a fake? Mahle has a very good name and I can't believer this is a Mahle manufactured filter. Ed
Mahle OC705 7800 Miles cut open - TORN!!!
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Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A random sample is not a good method to judge any product. Has any testing company done used filter analysis of hundreds of filters, under controlled conditions?
Yes, it's called the BITOG oil filter forum "company".
A random sample is not a good method to judge any product. Has any testing company done used filter analysis of hundreds of filters, under controlled conditions?
Yes, it's called the BITOG oil filter forum "company".
Odd, it looks nothing like the Mahle OC261 I posted a week or so ago...even the graphics are slightly different, noticeably the pleat spacing and amount of media. Be interested to hear the company's reply.
Good point on the possibility of a counterfeit...scary what you see what obvious counterfeits available when you Google a filter model #. I'd expect Rock Auto to be pretty good about this, but who knows. I have become very particular about who I buy parts from, probably paying more than I could just for the peace of mind.
Good point on the possibility of a counterfeit...scary what you see what obvious counterfeits available when you Google a filter model #. I'd expect Rock Auto to be pretty good about this, but who knows. I have become very particular about who I buy parts from, probably paying more than I could just for the peace of mind.
Compared to the linked same application Mahle OC705, 'what I can see' looks like a Mahle made filter to me. Apparently this application made in Mexico.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3954098/Mahle_OC705_Canister_Filter_(u
2014 doesn't seem that old when not long ago I finished using the last of 2009 stash of BD+ 3323 in May, no issues. I suppose it's possible RA storage somehow very bad, IDK. To me, looks to be a Mahle media tear anecdote at 7800 fci.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3954098/Mahle_OC705_Canister_Filter_(u
2014 doesn't seem that old when not long ago I finished using the last of 2009 stash of BD+ 3323 in May, no issues. I suppose it's possible RA storage somehow very bad, IDK. To me, looks to be a Mahle media tear anecdote at 7800 fci.
If you were to ask me, which you didn't, I would say this filter had filtered more than it could filter. It looks like it had been forced to filter more solids than liquids. If this were my car, which it isn't, and I liked this car, I would do a few 2000 mile oil changes with a new filter every time to try and clean things up a little. I really believe this is a dirty engine issue that the Mobil went to work on and stressed out your poor Mahle.
I've seen some black oil but this really looks super dirty to me.
Has this been your car for a long time? Have you used synthetic oil in it for a long time? How many miles on engine?
I've seen some black oil but this really looks super dirty to me.
Has this been your car for a long time? Have you used synthetic oil in it for a long time? How many miles on engine?
Gotta use the New Purolator one filter . Much better quality
yup, not as good as what they make in Austria
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A random sample is not a good method to judge any product. Has any testing company done used filter analysis of hundreds of filters, under controlled conditions?
Yes, it's called the BITOG oil filter forum "company".
Great! How do I obtain the well documented data?
You know, the usual information........brand of filter, model number, manufacturer, country of origin, where purchased, color of can.
Documentation there was no damage to used filter while doing the destructive testing from opening it up like a can of sprats.
Opening a used filter and finding damage is a moot point, too late.
You should cut it open before installing to make sure there are no tears, dings, un-even pleats, brittle media.
You find a good brand of filter, then the company is sold and manufacturing is out-sourced to a third world country. It takes months to find the filters are sub-par, and then you start the process all over.
It is a endless loop, but that is what keeps BITOG & Co. going strong!
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A random sample is not a good method to judge any product. Has any testing company done used filter analysis of hundreds of filters, under controlled conditions?
Yes, it's called the BITOG oil filter forum "company".
Great! How do I obtain the well documented data?
You know, the usual information........brand of filter, model number, manufacturer, country of origin, where purchased, color of can.
Documentation there was no damage to used filter while doing the destructive testing from opening it up like a can of sprats.
Opening a used filter and finding damage is a moot point, too late.
You should cut it open before installing to make sure there are no tears, dings, un-even pleats, brittle media.
You find a good brand of filter, then the company is sold and manufacturing is out-sourced to a third world country. It takes months to find the filters are sub-par, and then you start the process all over.
It is a endless loop, but that is what keeps BITOG & Co. going strong!
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A random sample is not a good method to judge any product. Has any testing company done used filter analysis of hundreds of filters, under controlled conditions?
Yes, it's called the BITOG oil filter forum "company".
Great! How do I obtain the well documented data?
Guess you haven't been around long enough to have seen this. Member named "Stu_rock" started this when all the Purolator media tearing started - it also includes some other brands made by Purolator. He gave up on it well before all the reported tearing, so there have been dozen more posted here that never made it into the spreadsheet - LINK
Plus there are still threads being generated from time to time like this one reporting a torn filter or some other failure found inside.
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Opening a used filter and finding damage is a moot point, too late.
You should cut it open before installing to make sure there are no tears, dings, un-even pleats, brittle media.
What would be more practical would be to hire Superman to take a look through the can with X-ray vision.
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
It is a endless loop, but that is what keeps BITOG & Co. going strong!
Yep, what else would we talk about in the oil filter forum?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A random sample is not a good method to judge any product. Has any testing company done used filter analysis of hundreds of filters, under controlled conditions?
Yes, it's called the BITOG oil filter forum "company".
Great! How do I obtain the well documented data?
Guess you haven't been around long enough to have seen this. Member named "Stu_rock" started this when all the Purolator media tearing started - it also includes some other brands made by Purolator. He gave up on it well before all the reported tearing, so there have been dozen more posted here that never made it into the spreadsheet - LINK
Plus there are still threads being generated from time to time like this one reporting a torn filter or some other failure found inside.
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Opening a used filter and finding damage is a moot point, too late.
You should cut it open before installing to make sure there are no tears, dings, un-even pleats, brittle media.
What would be more practical would be to hire Superman to take a look through the can with X-ray vision.
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
It is a endless loop, but that is what keeps BITOG & Co. going strong!
Yep, what else would we talk about in the oil filter forum?
I missed where it was 2014 made. That's not old at all. So I was wrong. Maybe send the pics and info to Mahle to see if it is a fake or what they think. It does look like this one, and it is described as being pretty great.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Clevite-MAHLE/695/OC705/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Clevite-MAHLE/695/OC705/10002/-1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Opening a used filter and finding damage is a moot point, too late.
You should cut it open before installing to make sure there are no tears, dings, un-even pleats, brittle media.
What would be more practical would be to hire Superman to take a look through the can with X-ray vision.
...
What would be even more practical would be to switch to cartridge filters. I'm through hack-sawing oil filters apart (unless I finally stop procrastinating opening the last one I took off my Mazda, at ~21k)
...
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Opening a used filter and finding damage is a moot point, too late.
You should cut it open before installing to make sure there are no tears, dings, un-even pleats, brittle media.
What would be more practical would be to hire Superman to take a look through the can with X-ray vision.
...
What would be even more practical would be to switch to cartridge filters. I'm through hack-sawing oil filters apart (unless I finally stop procrastinating opening the last one I took off my Mazda, at ~21k)
4WD
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This whole group … while it did not crumble … was as easy to tear by hand as a cheap business card … not so with Fram, M1, or Wix … It is Puro-related filters using the weakest media …
Not a typical Fram, Champion Laboratories, or Champion Federal Mogul code stamping on the dome. I seriously doubt it's Frampion made or made by any one of these 3 companies.
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https://catalog.mahle-aftermarket.com/na/modules/mahleFilter/detail.xhtml?filterId=784097&d=t
They say opposite to facts shown here.
"Superior filter media and its processing prevent decomposition and collapse of the filter under extreme conditions such as repeated cold start and high dirt load. Bypass and check valves assure constant oil supply at all times."
They say opposite to facts shown here.
"Superior filter media and its processing prevent decomposition and collapse of the filter under extreme conditions such as repeated cold start and high dirt load. Bypass and check valves assure constant oil supply at all times."
Interesting link to Mahle's pages on counterfeits: Mahle Examples From Practice
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Some of my posts are serious, for example........
When a oil filter is cut open for inspection, and a defect is observed, how would one know if that is the one filter out of thousands that has a defect, or if it is the norm for that filter brand? If no defect is found, that may be the only filter out of several thousand that was good.
You're overthinking this. The answer is simple - prior to being cut open, the filter media exists in a state of being simultaneously torn and not torn.
Some of my posts are serious, for example........
When a oil filter is cut open for inspection, and a defect is observed, how would one know if that is the one filter out of thousands that has a defect, or if it is the norm for that filter brand? If no defect is found, that may be the only filter out of several thousand that was good.
You're overthinking this. The answer is simple - prior to being cut open, the filter media exists in a state of being simultaneously torn and not torn.
Originally Posted By: wings&wheels
Interesting link to Mahle's pages on counterfeits: Mahle Examples From Practice
Interesting because they show a fake that does not have the extra corrugation ring on the inside of the baseplate. They make a point of it. The filter here also doesn't have that extra ring. They show pictures of each. The fake looks like this one. Maybe it is the model though, but is suspicious because it is exactly what they say a fake looks like.
Mahle says:
"Missing corrugation: cause for leakage
After opening the filter, a look at the end plate: in the counterfeit the second corrugation is missing. In the original, it serves to reinforce the cover plate to prevent distortion under load which causes the sealing ring to loose its sealing ability.
The end plate from the outside: undistinguishable.
But internally the counterfeit lacks the reinforcement corrugation."
Interesting link to Mahle's pages on counterfeits: Mahle Examples From Practice
Interesting because they show a fake that does not have the extra corrugation ring on the inside of the baseplate. They make a point of it. The filter here also doesn't have that extra ring. They show pictures of each. The fake looks like this one. Maybe it is the model though, but is suspicious because it is exactly what they say a fake looks like.
Mahle says:
"Missing corrugation: cause for leakage
After opening the filter, a look at the end plate: in the counterfeit the second corrugation is missing. In the original, it serves to reinforce the cover plate to prevent distortion under load which causes the sealing ring to loose its sealing ability.
The end plate from the outside: undistinguishable.
But internally the counterfeit lacks the reinforcement corrugation."
Originally Posted By: Gebo
If you were to ask me, which you didn't, I would say this filter had filtered more than it could filter. It looks like it had been forced to filter more solids than liquids. If this were my car, which it isn't, and I liked this car, I would do a few 2000 mile oil changes with a new filter every time to try and clean things up a little. I really believe this is a dirty engine issue that the Mobil went to work on and stressed out your poor Mahle.
I've seen some black oil but this really looks super dirty to me.
Has this been your car for a long time? Have you used synthetic oil in it for a long time? How many miles on engine?
My Town Car has 106,000km's so about 65,000 miles and was purchased by me about a year ago with 90,000km's. It's definitely been well maintained, has even had its tranny and diff fluids changed by the previous owner.
While I haven't pulled the valve covers to inspect (pulling valve covers on a Panther sucks!) from what I can see through the oil fill hole and PCV and breather holes, it's very clean inside. The oil I drained didn't look dirty to me at all, it was dark, but not terribly dark, considering it had almost 8000miles on it. I think I took a picture of the inside of the filter can when it was opened. It was pretty clean inside too.
I sent out a UOA to blackstone just out of curiosity, which I will post when I get it.
If you were to ask me, which you didn't, I would say this filter had filtered more than it could filter. It looks like it had been forced to filter more solids than liquids. If this were my car, which it isn't, and I liked this car, I would do a few 2000 mile oil changes with a new filter every time to try and clean things up a little. I really believe this is a dirty engine issue that the Mobil went to work on and stressed out your poor Mahle.
I've seen some black oil but this really looks super dirty to me.
Has this been your car for a long time? Have you used synthetic oil in it for a long time? How many miles on engine?
My Town Car has 106,000km's so about 65,000 miles and was purchased by me about a year ago with 90,000km's. It's definitely been well maintained, has even had its tranny and diff fluids changed by the previous owner.
While I haven't pulled the valve covers to inspect (pulling valve covers on a Panther sucks!) from what I can see through the oil fill hole and PCV and breather holes, it's very clean inside. The oil I drained didn't look dirty to me at all, it was dark, but not terribly dark, considering it had almost 8000miles on it. I think I took a picture of the inside of the filter can when it was opened. It was pretty clean inside too.
I sent out a UOA to blackstone just out of curiosity, which I will post when I get it.
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