Magnetic Drain Plugs Hardly get a Mention. Why?

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On a site dedicated to Oil, I can't help but notice that there's post after post of stuff on this filter, that filter or the other, but very littel on fitting Magnetic Drain Plugs, or filter magnets come to that. I notice, few cars ex-factory have them which if you're cynic like me is understandable. (Extra cost with no showroom appeal)

Exception: my Aisin Warner Transmission has one.

Seems an obvious cheap-fit to me, I also put a Magnefine into my steering and ATF lines too. When i drop my oil I find a fine mist on my sump plug, stuff that missed the filter.

I was going to be putting a magnet on my oilfilter body too. They can't do any harm, but I ask, why is there not too much emphasis on what is after all an oil site? Makes sense to me, so why little or no mention

Is it me, am I deluded?
 
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I may be all wet, but I really don't see how they could be effective for engine oil. With 5 quarts of oil flowing around, I don't see how a little .5" (13mm) diameter magnet will do much good.

I would stick with like the Filter Mag etc. that wraps around the entire filter. It seems to me more oil would flow through which would allow the magnet to trap more particles.

*I saw in a previous thread you had a Volvo. Do you have a drop in cartridge filter? Not too sure if a filter magnet would work in that situation or not.

I've not really dealt with too many transmissions on my life.. None of which had drain plugs either. Mine has a large coin sized magnet that sits in the bottom of the pan and works quite well. Id think that work much better than a magnetized bolt.
 
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Agreed a Filter Mag etc. that wraps around the entire filter, would be better than my sump plug, but microscopic ferrous particles floating in oil don't need mega-powerful magnets to be collected...

Of course a more-flavour magnet, if it is mega-powerful, would be so much the better. My drain-plug collects a mist now not floating around in oil. I suppose all my oil passes near it eventually.

This still poses the same question. Why no emphasis on a magnet of any flavour?
 
Yes, I run a Volvo with a plastic body filter, but a Filtermag can be bodged to it... somehow. But need I bother, those that know lots more than me on here don't seem to mention magnets too often.
 
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I read on this site years ago that they might do more harm than good. I can't find in with the search function so I can't post a link. Someone in the post said that not all ferrous particles get trapped, some get by and might become magnetized and collect on ferrous metal parts in the engine and could cause more wear. It was interesting and gets me thinking from time to time.
 
Ah, that thought hadn't even occurred to me. Might represent a very good argumet for a monster of a magnet, (so that once grabbed it won't let go) or as you suggest, no magnet at all.

I know these magnets need to be capable of working at oil operating temperature, a magnet gets weaker as it gets hotter, so a magnet good at room temperature may not be as good as at engine temperature.

http://youtu.be/vjRmrYqKmPM

Forgive the accent, he's a Northerner.. he suffers the same affliction as you lot, he can nearly speak English;)

Nearly Mind.
 
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That looks like a decent plug with a strong magnet. I think its a good thing.
Better to catch any particles before they hit the oil pump in the pan than after in the filter IMO, it should cut down on the amount of particles that can score the pump.
 
I agree that a tiny drain plug is not likely to have much impact. It's a good thing to catch big stuf before it goes thru the oil pump but that isn't an issue with all engines. A filter magnet might catch more iron than a drain pug magnet but in the end it's the return on investment (ROI) that often drives these discussions.

It's much like our discussions on primary filter efficiency. When you look at that objectively, you will see that below a certain threshold, improved efficiency doesn't usually pay the freight. It seems clear from statistical analysis, that with the low contamination input situations we here on BITOG normally encounter (it's different for off-road equipment that operates in total filth) that the "wear curve" really levels off below a certain efficiency point (which IMO is around 40 um absolute) and efficiency improvements below that do not result in equivalent wear reduction. At some point, the extra money you pay for the high efficiency filtration is not returned by a reduction in wear. MOney spent for very little. There are a few other benefits to high efficiency filtration that I won't go into but essentially, the ROI on a name-brand $4 is most often greater than a $9 one when the difference in price is mostly a difference in efficiency. High filtration is "better" but it really doesn't pay most people back in any tangible way.

I think the same thing is true with magnets. And I'm talking about not just a pencil eraser sized unit but something substantial. They are "better" but what you gain doesn't pay you back in most cases. The oil filter catches the bulk of the harmful material, iron or otherwise. The magnet catches all the iron but a good portion of that capability is redundant so only the small particles that the filter can't catch are the ones that "count"... but these are also the least harmful particles.

As with high efficiency oil filtration, the greatest benefits come way down the road. A normally maintained engine can last 250K miles these days. If you are like most people that do 12K miles per year, that's 21 years of driving. Will the rest of the car be a rusted out hulk by then or will you simply be ready for a new car? People who put 50-60K miles a year or more could benefit from high efficiency filtration or magnets because they have the potential to wear the engine out before attrition catches up with the rest of the car (or they simply want a new one) and the extra 150K reliable miles delivered by the improved filtration is a benefit.

I also think that the idea of using magnets should be evaluated according to the type of engine. Much of the "good rep" magnets have came from the old days. Older generation engines were all iron and they shed a lot of metal from their flat tappet cams, Morse or roller timing chains and ball pivot or shaft type rocker arms, not to mention low grade block castings and poor air filtration that made the bores wear like mad. All those engine features resulted in a great deal of iron in the oil and combined with relatively low efficiency oil filtration (compared to today) a magnet could pay for itself in fairly short order. Look at a UOA on an old smallblock Chevy if you want to see what high iron is all about.

In todays engines, beside the great strides in "everyday" oil and air filtration, most engines use external timing belts instead of chains, overhead cams, roller tappets and/or roller rockers and their block casting wear much less than before. All that results in much lower iron contamination inputs so a high dollar magnet is even more redundant.

On top of all that oil has greatly improved so even the old gen engine will produce less iron as a result of far better lubrication.

So, yeah, magnets are "better." Are they worth the extra expense to most people? IMO, no, but if you fit some of the special situations mentioned above, they might. You get to decide.
 
Magnetic Drain Plugs Hardly get a Mention. Why?

Well, for one it's a dumb place to put a magnet since it really limits how large a magnet you can use. Putting a magnet 10 times that size around the filter makes a lot more sense.

But even then I have a HUGE magnet on my filters (from some 1980's hard drives) and I get little more than a stain on the inside of my filters... which is probably all material that the filter would have picked up anyway. I have yet to see a "holy cow" particle in a few dozen filter cut ups.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I read on this site years ago that they might do more harm than good. I can't find in with the search function so I can't post a link. Someone in the post said that not all ferrous particles get trapped, some get by and might become magnetized and collect on ferrous metal parts in the engine and could cause more wear. It was interesting and gets me thinking from time to time.


Interesting thought. That would be a case against a filter mag, because the whole sump passes through that perhaps a few times a minute... A plug would help contain larger ferric particles before they went through the pickup and caused particle impingement on the pump vanes.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I read on this site years ago that they might do more harm than good. I can't find in with the search function so I can't post a link. Someone in the post said that not all ferrous particles get trapped, some get by and might become magnetized and collect on ferrous metal parts in the engine and could cause more wear. It was interesting and gets me thinking from time to time.


Interesting thought. That would be a case against a filter mag, because the whole sump passes through that perhaps a few times a minute... A plug would help contain larger ferric particles before they went through the pickup and caused particle impingement on the pump vanes.


Exactly. I've used them on and off over the years, but I have a feeling I'd be better off w/o it after remembering that thread I mentioned.
 
Normal wear, I don't think ferrous-based metals chunk off in an engine. Hardened valve stems, cams. Those don't shed. Rings? No. So what's the magnet supposed to trap in a normal engine?

Transmission has a lot of ferrous-based metal, almost touching (thin film of oil separating them). Makes more sense there.
 
When is the last time a bitog'r replaced an engine because it was worn out? With decent oil and filters the engine outlives the rest of the vehicle. How could adding a magnet extend the usable life of a vehicle?
 
Originally Posted By: spackard
Normal wear, I don't think ferrous-based metals chunk off in an engine. Hardened valve stems, cams. Those don't shed. Rings? No. So what's the magnet supposed to trap in a normal engine?

Transmission has a lot of ferrous-based metal, almost touching (thin film of oil separating them). Makes more sense there.


I wonder if particles can get magnetized and not trapped by the filter and attach to ferrous metal. If that happens can it cause harm to a transmission, similar to what I mentioned above in an engine?
 
the drain bolt on our 04 Thaoe 5.3 has a magnet in it--catches a fair amount of debris. None of our other vehicles have one though.

The magnet from old hard drives can be attached to the oil pan for zero cost, if the pan is steel, and your ROI would be positive starting immediately
 
I had an old 1989 Crown Victoria 5.0L (bought used) that had a magnetic drain plug. I don't know if it was OEM or aftermarket for that matter, but it did capture a fine metallic paste every oil change. That motor had a hydraulic roller valve train which would produce much fewer wear particles than traditional hydraulic flat tappets. Most of the wear particles I observed where likely produced from the cylinder walls which where cast iron. In modern cast aluminum engines I doubt a magnet of any placement will have a similar significance on capturing particles, as aluminum is classified as non magnetic.

My concern with a filter magnet would actually be with the placement of the filter bypass valve. If a magnet has particles trapped against the filter housing, could a high pressure bypass scenario dislodge some of the trapped metals and enter the bypass valve (being if the filter has a dome end bypass). I myself would be concerned with the sudden entry of metallic wear particles, some of which would have been trapped in the filter media without the magnet present. As previously noted by Demarpaint, if these particles can become magnetised one could imagine the harm a sudden influx of them could cause. A magnetic drain plug may be least affective at catching particulate metals, but it is probably the least likely to suddenly loose its filter load to oil current. None of this is tested however just my
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Originally Posted By: CurtisB

My concern with a filter magnet would actually be with the placement of the filter bypass valve. If a magnet has particles trapped against the filter housing, could a high pressure bypass scenario dislodge some of the trapped metals and enter the bypass valve (being if the filter has a dome end bypass). I myself would be concerned with the sudden entry of metallic wear particles, some of which would have been trapped in the filter media without the magnet present. As previously noted by Demarpaint, if these particles can become magnetised one could imagine the harm a sudden influx of them could cause. A magnetic drain plug may be least affective at catching particulate metals, but it is probably the least likely to suddenly loose its filter load to oil current. None of this is tested however just my
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Good point. Or if the magnet becomes weaker from the heat and falls off, now the metal that was attracted to it, is magnetized, and might escape into the engine. Come to think of it I had a filter magnet on my E-150 a few years back and it fell off. As a result of that and the thread I read here I stopped using them.

I think a magnetic drain plug might actually be better than a filter magnet. IMO there's less chance of it falling off and the metal its holding won't be stuck on the bottom or sides of the oil filter anymore, possibly being magnetized and recirculated through the oil.
 
Originally Posted By: ordinarybloke
This still poses the same question. Why no emphasis on a magnet of any flavour?


Magnetic drain plugs and magnets on oil filters is discussed at times ... you've just missed the threads. I think the consensus is that using magnets to collect ferrous particles that the oil filter can't trap certainly can't hurt.

I use magnetic drain plugs in all my vehicles, and they always have some "black paste" on them which is a collection of very fine ferrous particles. I use it as more of a "heath monitor" to see if the level of collected particles changes with time, or if there are any large particles that show up with the next inspection.
 
Originally Posted By: CurtisB
Most of the wear particles I observed where likely produced from the cylinder walls which where cast iron. In modern cast aluminum engines I doubt a magnet of any placement will have a similar significance on capturing particles, as aluminum is classified as non magnetic.


Aluminum blocked engines still have iron cylinder sleeves.
 
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