Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I understand the point you're making and I've already said you may very well be right in particular with regard to the trinuclear MoS2 in low doses. I too have read about what your referring to in part. IIRC to get the mimimum wear no more than 200-250 ppm of moly is necessary. But I haven't heard anything from Infineum regarding major fuel economy claims and general reductions in the CoF of motor with the addition of their moly.
That's not to say it doesn't go hand in hand with wear reduction it's just not spelled out by them.
Also while Mobil uses a small amount of moly in their street oils they use a hugh amount in their race oils; no particular point, just an observation.
But getting back to the difference between M1 0W-20 and the Toyota Brand 0W-20. The M1 oil is actually a fairly old formulation developed back in 2004 and it hasn't changed much according to Mobil. I one sense it is more of a "true" 0W-20 oil since the emphasis is on extreme cold performance. It was only when they resurrected the oil after it was discontinued and relabeled AFE did it get a new lease on life.
The Toyota oil is more interested in an "ultra low viscosity" at less extreme temp's that most users will encounter.
The organic moly additive is what was used by the Japanese OEM's and as I mentioned I find it interesting EOM chose not to use their own sources of the additive or convince Toyota that their moly compound had the same benefit if indeed it does.
XOM has a white paper comparing the benefits and CoF of Trinuclear Moly to the Binuclear and Mononuclear Moly (AKA organic moly) additives that everyone else is using. There is a marked difference.
I suspect that Toyota may have a contract with Adeka Sakura-Lube to supply the additive package for the motor oils that they are selling, this would explain why their additive package is being used instead of Infineum's additive package.
I'm not saying that the 0w-20 oil Toyota is selling is not excellent oil, it IS excellent oil! But, one can't compare the ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of Toyota's 0w-20 to M1's 0w-20 based strictly upon moly numbers from a VOA or UOA.
I understand the point you're making and I've already said you may very well be right in particular with regard to the trinuclear MoS2 in low doses. I too have read about what your referring to in part. IIRC to get the mimimum wear no more than 200-250 ppm of moly is necessary. But I haven't heard anything from Infineum regarding major fuel economy claims and general reductions in the CoF of motor with the addition of their moly.
That's not to say it doesn't go hand in hand with wear reduction it's just not spelled out by them.
Also while Mobil uses a small amount of moly in their street oils they use a hugh amount in their race oils; no particular point, just an observation.
But getting back to the difference between M1 0W-20 and the Toyota Brand 0W-20. The M1 oil is actually a fairly old formulation developed back in 2004 and it hasn't changed much according to Mobil. I one sense it is more of a "true" 0W-20 oil since the emphasis is on extreme cold performance. It was only when they resurrected the oil after it was discontinued and relabeled AFE did it get a new lease on life.
The Toyota oil is more interested in an "ultra low viscosity" at less extreme temp's that most users will encounter.
The organic moly additive is what was used by the Japanese OEM's and as I mentioned I find it interesting EOM chose not to use their own sources of the additive or convince Toyota that their moly compound had the same benefit if indeed it does.
XOM has a white paper comparing the benefits and CoF of Trinuclear Moly to the Binuclear and Mononuclear Moly (AKA organic moly) additives that everyone else is using. There is a marked difference.
I suspect that Toyota may have a contract with Adeka Sakura-Lube to supply the additive package for the motor oils that they are selling, this would explain why their additive package is being used instead of Infineum's additive package.
I'm not saying that the 0w-20 oil Toyota is selling is not excellent oil, it IS excellent oil! But, one can't compare the ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of Toyota's 0w-20 to M1's 0w-20 based strictly upon moly numbers from a VOA or UOA.
Last edited:
